Wireless Scoring

[blackshoe]

We manage to get the opening lead on our bridgepads, usually, although I wonder how often somebody puts in say ♠2 because all anyone can remember is "it was a small spade" and the opening leader doesn't bother to look at his hand after he's put it away.

[Siegmund]

Ours don't let you click past the opening-lead page even if you want to :)

 

Yes, people do sometimes put in the 2 when they dont know which small spot they mean (it doesnt check to see whether you really have the card you type in of course.)

 

Given a few months of regularly playing, many though not most of the members here have developed a habit of typing in the score and the opening lead at the start of the play rather than after the fact.

[pigpenz]

I know where I live in northern California we have gone to wireless scorers and dealing machines

 

its pretty nice hand records with all the results online

 

http://www.bridgewebs.com/redding/

 

this is an example of what can be done with them

its pretty nice especially when they get the hand records correct...LOL

[wank]

call me paranoid but in proper events i'm sure some people are 'at it' when they're filling in the scores on the bridgemates.

 

fortunately in england we tend to be quite anal and east-west tend to check closely that everything was inputted correctly, but when i've played abroad it all tends to be rather more haphazard.

 

i finished 2nd by 5MPs out of 5000 to a pair recently in a decent sized event with several k of loot on offer. during our 2 board round against them they 'accidentally' entered -200 as +200 which fortunately we spotted. then at the prize giving ceremony one of the dutch bermuda bowl winners came and told us we had been robbed as the winning pair had found 2 unbelievably good leads against him on their 2 board round, including K from KJ doubleton of clubs round to a strong 2♣ opener when leader's partner had had an opportunity to double 3♣ stayman (it's matchpoints, remember). it makes you wonder how many other bridgemate accidents occurred.

[pigpenz]

call me paranoid but in proper events i'm sure some people are 'at it' when they're filling in the scores on the bridgemates.

 

fortunately in england we tend to be quite anal and east-west tend to check closely that everything was inputted correctly, but when i've played abroad it all tends to be rather more haphazard.

 

i finished 2nd by 5MPs out of 5000 to a pair recently in a decent sized event with several k of loot on offer. during our 2 board round against them they 'accidentally' entered -200 as +200 which fortunately we spotted. then at the prize giving ceremony one of the dutch bermuda bowl winners came and told us we had been robbed as the winning pair had found 2 unbelievably good leads against him on their 2 board round, including K from KJ doubleton of clubs round to a strong 2♣ opener when leader's partner had had an opportunity to double 3♣ stayman (it's matchpoints, remember). it makes you wonder how many other bridgemate accidents occurred.

even at our club there is almost always one board scored incorrectly per game.

EW have to OK but don't always look, and problems arise if North starts to enter in wrong scored and has to change.

not counting the cost, its really nice but I am guessing everything must run about 3-5K$ USA? dealing machine plus wireless scoring.

[SteveMoe]

Our unit invested in the auto dealer well before we chose to use auto scoring.

The auto dealer enables hand records for every game - something that has become an expectation of the novice and the grandmaster alike.

We began posting the press reports and hand records to the club's website so everyone could see their hand-by-hand results and their awards.

When we did switch to auto scoring, we found he director's work load reduced somewhat, but the plus for the players was the additional hand information and presentation of results pair by pair enabled by the application - making the press report even more useful.

 

Dealer first. Scoring when size beckons help.

[pigpenz]

is there much difference between the autodealers price wise for the ones that read special cards vs the one that can read any type of card

[Quantumcat]

Dealing machines are vital - any club without one is totally backwards. I think I heard something about grants available to help clubs buy them? I'll look it up.

[pigpenz]

Dealing machines are vital - any club without one is totally backwards. I think I heard something about grants available to help clubs buy them? I'll look it up.

it would seem it would come down to the cost

if too expensive then only large scale clubs could afford them, hmmm

maybe the acbl could use some of their non profit dollars for this purpose

[Vampyr]

if too expensive then only large scale clubs could afford them, hmmm

 

Not necessarily. A club that does not have a large enough surplus to save up could, for instance, charge $1 or £1 or one whatever more for a year to build up the funds.

[pigpenz]

Not necessarily. A club that does not have a large enough surplus to save up could, for instance, charge $1 or £1 or one whatever more for a year to build up the funds.

we have 6 games a week here where I live in Northern California, they wont even share the duplicating machines and wireless terminals with each other let alone the unit game which is held 10 months of the year...all the members of each club are members of the other clubs....don't understand their politics here but its a shame they do things this way.

 

so the only way a club that only meets once a week could afford something like this is sharing with another club or costs have to come down.

[Vampyr]

so the only way a club that only meets once a week could afford something like this is sharing with another club or costs have to come down.

 

Our local once-a-week club bought a Duplimate machine several years ago and Bridgemates the year after that. We did it by taking out loans from the members, although that was just in place of buying them 9 or 12 months later, since the loans were paid off early.

[Quantumcat]

I should have added, wireless scoring is really only useful if you have lots and lots of tables, and players usually have to wait twenty minutes or longer to get a result after the game.

 

If your players just go home and wait till next week to see the result, wireless scorers would be a waste of money.

 

They can also be used by players who want to improve - for instance after a pairs game I usually check on one of the machines my matchpoints on each board, then write that down next to the hands on the hand record, so then I can figure out why I did badly on some boards. But if you don;t have hand records it's unlikely any of your club members would be interested in that, even if it was available, since they just aren't used to it.

 

If you end up getting them, I like Bridgepads over Bridgemates. Bridgepads use more of their surface area on their buttons, old people have an easier time using them. And you can scale the text up or down, so if you have mostly old people in an event you can scale it up, otherwise scale it down and have more info fit on the screen. Bridgemates (the new ones) use the screen as a touch screen but I don;t klike the software and don't think it's as user friendly as it could be.

[barmar]

Our local once-a-week club bought a Duplimate machine several years ago and Bridgemates the year after that. We did it by taking out loans from the members, although that was just in place of buying them 9 or 12 months later, since the loans were paid off early.

Our once-a-week, 8-10 table club did it by the club manager/director voluntarily buying the Duplimate himself, and the club is paying him back over several years.

[shevek]

I should have added, wireless scoring is really only useful if you have lots and lots of tables, and players usually have to wait twenty minutes or longer to get a result after the game.

 

If your players just go home and wait till next week to see the result, wireless scorers would be a waste of money.

 

They can also be used by players who want to improve - for instance after a pairs game I usually check on one of the machines my matchpoints on each board, then write that down next to the hands on the hand record, so then I can figure out why I did badly on some boards. But if you don;t have hand records it's unlikely any of your club members would be interested in that, even if it was available, since they just aren't used to it.

 

If you end up getting them, I like Bridgepads over Bridgemates. Bridgepads use more of their surface area on their buttons, old people have an easier time using them. And you can scale the text up or down, so if you have mostly old people in an event you can scale it up, otherwise scale it down and have more info fit on the screen. Bridgemates (the new ones) use the screen as a touch screen but I don;t klike the software and don't think it's as user friendly as it could be.

 

Are you sure about this? This is my understanding:

 

The orginal Dutch Bridgemate Pros with 2 lines of text & a black key for the director were a bit clunky.

Then came American bridgepads with a bigger screen to enter all data at once & display more results.

Then Brdigemate 2s, which are a bit better again, though expensive.

Finally Swedish bridgescorers are the ones with touch screens. I like these & they give the best feedback, including leads at other tables, percentages for all scores on a board, not just yours. Can even display hand records & deep finesse analysis.

[FM75]

The OP was about "investing" in one the two options. So far their has been no discussion about whether it was an investment or an expense.

 

If you don't know the difference, an investment is supposed to be returned over time with a profit. An expense is something that reduces revenues. Whether the OP really was using the term investment correctly is not clear. Did the OP really just want to hear preferences of players for one option versus the other, or the preferences of club owners, or was he interested in the return on the investment, or the effect of the expense?

 

Might be nice to clarify. :)

[Finch]

 

Finally Swedish bridgescorers are the ones with touch screens. I like these & they give the best feedback, including leads at other tables, percentages for all scores on a board, not just yours. Can even display hand records & deep finesse analysis.

 

This strikes me as bad, not good. You have a limited amount of time to play two or three hands. I want to spend that time playing bridge, not waiting while the opponents have a 5-minute discussion about the possible percentages on a board, what Jenny led at table 6 and how 6NT could be made double-dummy. That debate is for after the event. It's bad enough when you can see all the other scores and the percentage, as on current bridgemates.

[paulg]

It turns out that our club committee dislikes holding too much money in the bank and has purchased Bridgemate IIs for the start of new season (in September). As there is only one tournament player on the committee it is an indication that this is technology that the 'average' club player is interesting in.

[barmar]

The OP was about "investing" in one the two options. So far their has been no discussion about whether it was an investment or an expense.

Here's the dictionary definition that I suspect matches his intent:

[informal] buy (something) whose usefulness will repay the cost.

It's possible that it could be considered a financial investment -- if it increases attendance, you'll eventually recoup the purchase cost.

[shevek]

This strikes me as bad, not good. You have a limited amount of time to play two or three hands. I want to spend that time playing bridge, not waiting while the opponents have a 5-minute discussion about the possible percentages on a board, what Jenny led at table 6 and how 6NT could be made double-dummy. That debate is for after the event. It's bad enough when you can see all the other scores and the percentage, as on current bridgemates.

 

To fully justify the switch, the aim should be to provide all the data they currently get from travellers, which - in most cases - includes the hand record and card led. Otherwise, some players will leap at the excuse to say travellers were better.

 

Admittedly, showing the hand record is an option which we mostly have turned off. Can't be bad to have it.

Good for keeping track of fouled boards. Likewise the director at the computer gets to see the hand record next to the scores as they come in, making it easier to spot errors.

[blackshoe]

IMO players should be given exactly zero incentives to discuss boards they've played until after the session is over.

[nige1]

Most clubs that buy a dealing-machine regard it as an asset that attracts and keeps members. IMO, bridge-mates are a more questionable "investment". I'm surprised that they haven't already been replaced by cell-phones with an appropriate "app".

[barmar]

To fully justify the switch, the aim should be to provide all the data they currently get from travellers, which - in most cases - includes the hand record and card led. Otherwise, some players will leap at the excuse to say travellers were better.

Not around here they don't. Travelers in the ACBL generally just have the contract, results, and pair numbers. Hand records are given out at the end of the game.

 

The interesting thing is that the travelers still have columns for entering the matchpoints, even though matchpointing by hand is practically a forgotten art (does the Club Director test still ask for this?).

[blackshoe]

I don't know if the Club Director test asks for matchpointing by hand, but it should. What do you do if the computer crashes? Give up?

[barmar]

I don't know if the Club Director test asks for matchpointing by hand, but it should. What do you do if the computer crashes? Give up?

You take the travelers home, and enter everything when you get it fixed.

 

I still remember how to matchpoint by hand (although I'd have to think a little about factoring), but we no longer have any of those big score sheets where you enter all the matchpoints and add them up.