Do you overcall?

[the hog]

All vul, IMPs

 

You hold:

 

7

Q8652

AQ98

J72

 

RHO deals and opens 1D. Do you overcall? Do you think it's close?

 

Australian expert Bill Jacobs is writing an article on overcalling styles. His post has raised some interesting replies and showed a bit of difference in styles on different sides of the pond. What do you do on this hand? Why?

[mike777]

1) NO

 

2) NO

[Free]

Too many losers for me => pass

[Deanrover]

1) NO

 

2) NO

I think you missed out an important point Mike.

 

3) NO

[Guest Jlall]

yes and yes

[jtfanclub]

All vul, IMPs

 

You hold:

 

7

Q8652

AQ98

J72

 

RHO deals and opens 1D. Do you overcall? Do you think it's close?

 

Australian expert Bill Jacobs is writing an article on overcalling styles. His post has raised some interesting replies and showed a bit of difference in styles on different sides of the pond. What do you do on this hand? Why?

No expert here, but...

 

1 heart takes up negative space. I see bad things coming for them...things like the ♦AQ surrounding the king, and a bad spade split.

 

I think I'll quietly watch them bid their 80% game, and then set it.

[Guest Jlall]

just a matter of style here.

[luke warm]

i don't like the suit, but i have to overcall anyway with my stiff spade.... my diamonds should be good, anyway... and yes, it's close... i could be persuaded to pass very easily

[OrShoham]

As a flat response, no, but it's close. If I'm at a point in a tournament or match where I need to be creative, I would overcall 2H, hoping opps get to a poor spade fit, where my AQd and partner's supposedly long trump suit can set them.

[mr1303]

You're vulnerable. OK, so are opps, but if it's a part score hand your chances of considing 200 when no-ones making a game are far too high.

 

So no.

 

At green it might be close, but not at this vul

[joker_gib]

1) Yes

 

2) Yes very close B)

[hrothgar]

I'm torn on this one...

The hand was very well chosen since there are a lot of variable to consider:

 

1. The hand holds 5 Hearts and spade shortness. Its very important to show Hearts early in these auctions.

 

2. The opponents opened 1♦, so my overcall doesn't use up any bidding space.

 

3. Weak suit (I don't necessarily want a heart lead) with good defensive values in their suit. The overcall will help the other side if we get out-gunned in the bidding.

 

I'll bid 1♥, however, I consider it very close.

[Chamaco]

Overcalling H here has a lot of minuses here:

 

1) does not show a good suit and mislead pard on opening lead

 

2) most of values are in their suit = Low offense/defense ratio

 

3) does not take up bidding room to opps. Just reverse spades and hearts, and bidding spades would make life more difficult for opps since many more RHO hands need to use a negative double.

After 1H overcall, it is all too easy to respond for RHO.

 

4) what's more, we are vulnerable, and it is IMPS.

 

On the other hand, the only potential benefit of overcalling here would be to find a profitable sacrifice or game making in hearts.

The chances of this to happen are, IMO, much lower than the chances of bad things to happen (pard blows a trick on lead, or goes overboard assuming we have a better hand).

 

For all of the above, I pass here, and I think it's not a close decision.

[pclayton]

If Im playing the simple overcall portion of "Overcall Structure", its automatic.

 

If I'm not (and I generally don't), I pass:

 

1: The suit is threadbare

2: My point count is minimal, even adding full value to the AQ98

3: 1♥ over 1♦ takes up very little bidding room. OTOH if I had Qxxxx of spades and AQ98 of clubs and RHO opened 1♣, an overcall would be automatic. I've heard some suggest that an overcall like this should show an opening hand, since its takes up no bidding room.

[Antoine Fourrière]

I don't view it as close between overcalling and passing. This hand is a sound minimum 1♥ overcall, with the stiff spade and the good AQ98 of diamonds.

 

But two questions remain undecided:

 

a) Although I do not like the five-card weak two-bid (excepted with a five-five which imo has the distributional power of a six-card suit), I'm unclear as to whether the hands with precisely five hearts and one spade could/should be treated as weak twos. (The hands with five spades and one heart probably do not qualify, because bidding 3♠ over 3♥ should require a bit more distribution than bidding 3♥ over 2♠.)

So, is 2♥ a better option?

 

b) Should I bid a preemptive 3♥ if it goes 1♠ 2♥ 2♠?

They have the balance of strength, but they do not know it.

(And if I do not dare, but feel I should, doesn't it simply mean that a direct 2♥ overcall would have been better?)

[Fluffy]

overcall? yes of course

 

is it close? not at all.

[daswallow]

I pass, for sure.

Bad hand, bad suit, I also like to have (near) opening values for this type of bid.

Plus we do not want a heart lead so why bid?

[HeartA]

yes and yes

add me to the list.

[junyi_zhu]

All vul, IMPs

 

You hold:

 

7

Q8652

AQ98

J72

 

RHO deals and opens 1D. Do you overcall? Do you think it's close?

 

Australian expert Bill Jacobs is writing an article on overcalling styles. His post has raised some interesting replies and showed a bit of difference in styles on different sides of the pond. What do you do on this hand? Why?

I pass and I think it's close. The major disadvatage is the rank of suit, heart is always a problem. If you change the suit to spade, I'd bid for sure.

[whereagles]

You hold:

 

7

Q8652

AQ98

J72

 

RHO deals and opens 1D.  Do you overcall?  Do you think it's close?

 

Australian expert Bill Jacobs is writing an article on overcalling styles. His post has raised some interesting replies and showed a bit of difference in styles on different sides of the pond. What do you do on this hand? Why?

I pass, but I'd say it's close.

 

Against:

- Low ODR.

- Bad suit. No lead-directing value in a deal that rates to be theirs (close, though).

- Has below-zero preemptive value: gives them an extra step - dbl.

- Slightly weak in hcp, but that's the least of it :)

 

For:

- Show your hand in one bid.

- Saves pard some balancing problems.

- It's the heart suit and they rate to have spades. Passing now risks losing hearts for good.

- Diamond lenght makes heart fit more likely.

 

Give me

 

x

AQxxx

Q98x

Jxx

 

and I'd definitely butt-in.

[PriorKnowledge]

1) yes

2) automatic

 

overcall at 1-level on any 5 card suit and any 8+hcp

[the hog]

Interesting! Bill suggested their might be a divide on different sides of the pond. The Italians would overcall without a second thought. I would bid 1H but consider it very close.

 

Here is a quote from Paul Marston on this hand:

 

"I am surprised that the view of this group is so crusty.

Consider this likely hand for partner:

Kxxx

Kxxx

xx

Axx

For all you passers, the bidding goes 1D - p - 1S - p - 2S, which presumably

gets passed out. That makes about 110. You probably have 140 in hearts

(maybe 620!). Who's to blame?

At the other table it goes 1D - 1H - 1S - 3H - 3S - p - 4S - X. That goes

for 500. Do you blame your teammates? You shouldn't: opener overbid to show

spade support (as we all do) and responder took a close push to a game. On a

good day this would make but today it was wrecked by the poor position of

the diamonds and the bad trump break. The trouble is that the opponents with

your cards forced your teamates to guess and, unluckily, they guessed wrong.

So you lose 12 imps instead of the 6 imps you were already slated to lose.

You don't need a heart fit for bidding to be right. Give partner: Kxxx, xx,

xx, AQxxx. This time the other table bids 1D - 1H - 1S - 2C - 2S - 3C and

the opponents with your cards have the plus score they should have while you

still lose 110.

You can piously justify your pass of 1D by counting your points or examining

the quality of your heart spots but the truth is that you are just a stodgy

old bugger who never bids. You have failed to take an almost no-cost

opportunity to bring partner into the action and you have paid the price. If

you have partnership rules that prevent you from overcalling on this hand

then you should quickly change the rules."

[Guest Jlall]

i agree with him. i call this the nusance effect. It just gives the opps some minor decisions, sometimes major ones. Sometimes u win a partscore swing. The advantages arent obvious but they are numerous

[PriorKnowledge]

Another reason to bid 1H. Suppose the bidding goes

(1D) p (2N) p (3N) all pass

and partner leads a spade instead of a heart from KJx.

Wouldn't you want to kick yourself for passing?

[tysen2k]

Excellent problem, Ron. I think this is super close. My first instinct was Pass, then 1♥, then Pass again. I'm still not sure. The example hands given for justifying overcalling are naturally biased to favor the author's view. I can give an example in the other direction as well:

[hv=d=e&v=b&n=skj64hat3d3cat863&w=sat32h94dt74ck954&e=sq985hkj7dkj652cq&s=s7hq8652daq98cj72]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

If you pass I can see it going:

(1♦) Pass (1♠) 2C

(2♠) 3C All Pass

 

Overcall 1H and try to keep partner from going to game.

 

But in general, I don't think the 1♥ overcall is bad. It could certainly work.

 

Tysen