Your Turn topic 3

[MrAce]

[hv=pc=n&s=s852hkq987dkcaq32&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=p1hp2hppdr2spp3hp]133|200[/hv]

 

WC pd and opps, teamgame, you play 2/1. 2♥ is not a constructive raise.

 

I got this wrong as south, what is your bid and tell us if you would make a move previous round.

[cherdano]

4♥

[inquiry]

[hv=pc=n&s=s852hkq987dkcaq32&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=p1hp2hppdr2spp3hp]133|200[/hv]

 

WC pd and opps, teamgame, you play 2/1. 2♥ is not a constructive raise.

 

I got this wrong as south, what is your bid and tell us if you would make a move previous round.

 

HOW not constructive was 2@h, what did the redouble show (defensive hand?), what would a jump to 3@h have shown over 1@h, and what would a 3@h over the double have shown? and do you ahve any agreement about what bids other than 3@h means in the balancing seat. That is, would 2nt be spade shortness? 3@C club shortness, etc, or would any suit bid be help suit game try?

 

Don't know enough about your methods to venture a guess as what to do here. Just opposite my non-constructive raise, you would never consider bidding again with this hand.

[MrAce]

HOW not constructive was 2@h, what did the redouble show (defensive hand?), what would a jump to 3@h have shown over 1@h, and what would a 3@h over the double have shown? and do you ahve any agreement about what bids other than 3@h means in the balancing seat. That is, would 2nt be spade shortness? 3@C club shortness, etc, or would any suit bid be help suit game try?

 

Don't know enough about your methods to venture a guess as what to do here. Just opposite my non-constructive raise, you would never consider bidding again with this hand.

 

-2♥ is just regular 2♥. We dont bid NT with fit unless we have limit 3 card raise.

 

-Redouble show a very good 2♥ bid.

 

-3♥ over 1♥ would be limit raise 10-11 ish 4 card support.

 

-3♥ over the double would be totally competitive with 4 card support, so this one ( original auction) is sort of showing some meat in case we wanna DBL them at 3 level and/or in case i change my mind and bid game.

 

-No we dont have any agreements for other bids except than 3♥ in balancing seat. We didnt have any of teh agreements above except than 2♥ not being constructive. Those were my assumptions.

[Yu18772]

Partner seems to upgrade his hand given the auction, whats the best possible hand he can have for 2♥?

I would try 4♥ I guess, but totally prepared to take the blame for a minus score.

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gifYu

[yin970902]

IMO,pass,

To finish 4♥ Game Contract,need ♥A and ♣ K or♦A and ♥J and ♣K. Especially,north has only two spades.But,2♥ is not a constructive raise.

Maybe north has a 4-hearts suit and a long ,bad diamond suit such as Jxxxx.

[MrAce]

......But,2♥ is not a constructive raise....

 

Yes but now we know, after the redouble, that he had a constructive and obviously max of a 2♥ bid.

[tolvyrj]

Pass. Prd must be max. for his 2♥ raise, but still his original bid was 2♥, i dont belive we have game here.

[JLOGIC]

4H easily.

[gnasher]

It seems inconsistent to bid game now. We didn't make a game-try after 2♥, and we didn't bid 3♣ over 2♠. For game to make, we'll need partner to be able to deal with our club losers. If we're considering bidding game now, we should have taken the opportunity to ask him if he had the right hand.

 

With the bidding as it's gone, I think pass is clearly correct. We still have a singleton king and we still have terrible spots in our side-suit. If we're missing ♣K it's likely to be offside. xx AJx xxxx Kxxx would be nice, but xx AJx Axxxx xxx is rather more likely.

[kayin801]

Agree with gnasher, plus partner could have tried a minor suit bid instead of just going directly to 3S. I guess partner could have xx, Axx, AQxx, xxxx but they also might have made a limit raise with that red at IMPs?

 

I think partner just wanted to smack them if they bid a minor, and since they bid spades he opted to just compete instead. That having been said, the above hand is consistent with their bidding so maybe we should be upgrading based on that and bidding 4.

[dake50]

Am I looking at the kiss-of-death Spade holding?

Easy defense to get a couple Spade tricks and

signal what next.

I'm going tame Pass.

[Phil]

It seems inconsistent to bid game now. We didn't make a game-try after 2♥, and we didn't bid 3♣ over 2♠. For game to make, we'll need partner to be able to deal with our club losers. If we're considering bidding game now, we should have taken the opportunity to ask him if he had the right hand.

 

With the bidding as it's gone, I think pass is clearly correct. We still have a singleton king and we still have terrible spots in our side-suit. If we're missing ♣K it's likely to be offside. xx AJx xxxx Kxxx would be nice, but xx AJx Axxxx xxx is rather more likely.

 

Partner also redoubled, which suggests some help in these shaky minors? And he competed on his own, so he shouldn't have xxx of trump. Plus the opponents have told he he doesn't have much, if any spade wastage. My biggest worry is trumps are 4-1.

 

I'm going. If it makes I get to pwn my opponents for the rest of the set for balancing me into game.

 

(Its 2012, is it OK to still say pwn?(

[CSGibson]

I am going, I need partner to have a red ace and the K of clubs to go with a doubleton spade - seems reasonable enough on the bidding. Agree with Gnasher that I should have bid 3♣ over 2♠ to get a better read.

[MrAce]

I passed, before i did that i thought about some shapes pd may have to make game, i came close, but not enough. Pd had

 

Kx

Jxx

Qxxxx

KJx

 

Pass would be right decision if for example he didnt have ♣J in the original hand. Or if he had Kxx ♠ (I didnt believe opponents neccesarilly have 8 card spades in this auction)

 

But anyway it was close decision that costed us 10 imps. Those who bid the game got it right.

 

Would you start 2♥ with this or would you make a 3 card LR ?

 

I actually am more interested in your opinions about my previous pass over 2♥. Would you take another action ? It seems close to me.

[CSGibson]

I passed, before i did that i thought about some shapes pd may have to make game, i came close, but not enough. Pd had

 

Kx

Jxx

Qxxxx

KJx

 

Pass would be right decision if for example he didnt have ♣J in the original hand. Or if he had Kxx ♠ (I didnt believe opponents neccesarilly have 8 card spades in this auction)

 

But anyway it was close decision that costed us 10 imps. Those who bid the game got it right.

 

Would you start 2♥ with this or would you make a 3 card LR ?

 

I actually am more interested in your opinions about my previous pass over 2♥. Would you take another action ? It seems close to me.

 

 

Another factor: If partner had doubled 2S, would it be penalty or cooperative? How about your own double vs pass vs bidding?

 

I think you can definitely read partner for a max of 2S on this auction; you would have expected a pass or double from his hand with 3+ spades (like you got with your hand and 3+ spades).

 

I think partner's bidding is close to being a 3 card limit raise. Basically, you have 2 expected cover cards in the kings, and potential cover cards in the doubleton spade or the Q of diamonds, as well as a useful chip in the J of hearts. I think its close enough that I wouldn't care what partner called it, but that having aggressive opponents who like to compete past 2H would put me on the 2H camp - you frequently have an opportunity to show a max later in the bidding, like you did here.

 

It would probably also matter to me what type of hands we open and typically raise with. If we raise aggressively, I might have to put this in the 3 card limit raise. If we open aggressively, I would be more inclined to put this in 2H. If we open and raise aggressively, then I would like a systemic tool to deal with this hand so that we can show a bad 3 card limit raise and stay at the 2 level. I have included those hands in 2♣ in my main partnership, since we both open and raise aggressively, but that's a mid-chart solution.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I passed, before i did that i thought about some shapes pd may have to make game, i came close, but not enough. Pd had

 

Kx

Jxx

Qxxxx

KJx

 

But anyway it was close decision that costed us 10 imps. Those who bid the game got it right.

 

Why didn't you lose 4 tricks :

 

2s, 1h, 1d

[MrAce]

Why didn't you lose 4 tricks :

 

2s, 1h, 1d

 

♠A was on, 3rd spade goes on ♦

[benlessard]

Im wondering if the main purpose of the XX penalizing them or just showing a maximum for finding a close game ?

 

Maybe im wrong but I tend to think its mostly to penalize them, so I would expect 3 things for the XX

 

1-maximum

2- fairly balanced (maximum based on HCP not on distribution)

3- almost always xxx or Kx or better in S (its pointless and dangerous to XX with 2 baby in Spades)

 

On this hand It doesnt change a lot of thing since we are lacking a little something for doubling 2S but its easy to see hands where 2S is down 2 and game as no play.

[the hog]

Your partner misbid. On the given auction pass is clear.

[mfa1010]

Partner's hand was too strong for 2♥ imo.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I passed, before i did that i thought about some shapes pd may have to make game, i came close, but not enough. Pd had

 

Kx

Jxx

Qxxxx

KJx

 

Pass would be right decision if for example he didnt have ♣J in the original hand. Or if he had Kxx ♠ (I didnt believe opponents neccesarilly have 8 card spades in this auction)

 

But anyway it was close decision that costed us 10 imps. Those who bid the game got it right.

 

Would you start 2♥ with this or would you make a 3 card LR ?

 

 

Since in 2/1, a 3 card limit raise is 8,9 exact, then pard was too strong for 2H ( I agree with mfa1010 ) .

Had it gone:

( p ) - 1H - ( p ) - 1NTF

( p ) - 2C - ( p ) - ?? ( with the double-fit, he might just bid 4H now )

[psyck]

When 2♥ can include a contructive hand, a game try of 3♣ is called for, certainly on 2♠ if not on 2♥.

[rmnka447]

I'm bidding 4 ♥ as pard has shown something with the XX. If pard can't sit for 2 ♠, then I want to be in 4 ♥ at IMPs.

 

 

P.S. just read through rest of thread after posting first (above) comment. You do have a 6 loser hand (3 ♠s, 1 ♥, 1 ♦, 1 ♣). I bid 4 ♥ because at IMPs I'm aggressive about bidding VUL games. So once pard keeps bidding, I'm taking a positive view and going on. After 2 ♥ by pard, you passed and were interested in what others might do. With your hand, I think you're on the knife edge between passing and inviting. Pard has presumably about 9 loser hand which would leave you just a tad short at game. (24-[9+6]=9) I don't think either action is clear cut and would imagine some days I might make a try and some I might not. So I wouldn't beat yourself up too much for passing over 2 ♥.

 

Partner's hand looks to some like more than a 2 ♥ bid. But it's just possible that partner also looked at the hand's loser count besides his point count. Qxx(xx) counts out as 2 1/2 losers. (With QJx(x..) or Q10x(x..), it would be 2 losers because of the supporting card.) That makes the hand an 8 1/2 loser hand -- again on the cusp between a straight 2 ♥ raise and a 1 NT/3 ♥ limit raise. Again, pard looks to have made a close judgement.

[gszes]

I agree with original pass --- too small % of finding just the right hand but after

p xx and rho bids 2s this greatly improves the chances of p not only being

at top bit short in spades. Now the :slim: chance of finding p with say

xx Axxx xxxx KJx begins to look much more likely and i would have bid

3c over 2s to help p evaluate their hand better. If p tries to sign off I

have done all i could.