4504 reverse?

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=skq63haqt84dcaqt5&d=w&v=e&b=16&a=ppp1hp1np2cp3cp?]133|200[/hv]

 

Playing "standard", no fancy agreements.

 

Would you have reversed into 2♠?

Having bid 2♣ what do you do now?

[Bbradley62]

Would you have reversed into 2♠?

Yes

Having bid 2♣ what do you do now?

5♣, but I hate it.

[Mbodell]

4♦ - splinter for ♣

 

If you play 4♦ is KC, would 4♣ be forcing? I'd try that.

 

But partner is very unlikely to play us for a hand this good. 2♠ reverse is ok, but obviously partner is not likely to have a spade fit given the 1nt bid (unless you play flannery or something). You might try 3♣ instead of 2♣. It is a stretch by HCP, but a void, a 3 loser hand, and two good T in your suits make it somewhat attractive. I mean give partner Jxx Jx xxx Jxxxx and game is looking quite good, your hand is really, really strong - assuming you have some fit somewhere.

[rmnka447]

Yes, I would reverse into 2 ♠ with an 18 HCP, 3 loser hand.

 

After partner raises to 3 ♣, a ♣ contract comes into view. Partner should have at least 4 ♣s and values.

 

I'd continue with a 3 ♠ bid. Pard might still want to play 3 NT if holding some fitting cards and ♦ stoppers.

 

If pard has the right cards for game or slam in ♣s, the ♠ bid hleps define where my values are and implies ♦ shortness.

[mgoetze]

Would you have reversed into 2♠?

Yes.

 

Having bid 2♣ what do you do now?

3♠, no reason to pass over 3NT yet.

[Codo]

1. No, I have a three suiter and 2 ♠ takes away too much space. I would bury a club fit forever just to show my strength more accurately.

 

2. Partner did not bid 2 ♠, so he has a weaker raise. But even than slam is possible (jx, x,xxxxx,Kxxxx is enough...). I would try 4♦ if this is a splinter any other strong club raise if not.

[dkham]

I think we should have reversed into 2♠, don't want to play 2♣+3. We can still find a club fit after 2♠ - if partner bids [3 clubs] we raise or if he bids 2NT we bid 3♣.

 

In the actual auction I like the idea of a 4♦ splinter next.

[han]

I would definitely bid 3S now.

[Cyberyeti]

I would definitely bid 3S now.

Yup, this is effectively a diamond splinter, whether you would ever bid a 3 card suit as a stop here is not clear but you're certainly showing values in spades and 0-1 diamonds and a big hand.

[daveharty]

EDIT: never mind

[helene_t]

I would definitely bid 3S now.

What if partner bids 3NT then?

[han]

Then I would pass. Partner most likely has an 8-9 count with 4-5 clubs and values in diamonds, my interest in slam has ebbed away.

 

5C might still be better than 3NT, it's not completely clearcut.

[billw55]

I would not reverse into spades. If we had a fit there, partner would have bid 1♠ not 1NT.

 

I want to choose a bid that shows the diamond shortness, whether it be 3♠ or a splinter. This could be important, since 6♣ may be making if partner has no diamond values.

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=skq63haqt84dcaqt5&w=sj542hk762dqj53c4&n=s9hj5dak986cj9763&e=sat87h93dt742ck82&d=w&v=e&b=16&a=ppp1hp1np2cp3cp3nppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Apart from 1♥, I'm not proud of any of my bidding and lacking agreements, I blasted 3N.

[Phil]

I would not reverse into spades. If we had a fit there, partner would have bid 1♠ not 1NT.

 

I want to choose a bid that shows the diamond shortness, whether it be 3♠ or a splinter. This could be important, since 6♣ may be making if partner has no diamond values.

 

The main point about bidding 2♠ is to start to show your hand pattern and strength to partner. I play Flannery, so I can still have a fit, but generally you will not. If partner bids 2N, 3♣ is perfect. Over 3♦, I can bid 3N, recognizing that we are probably too high. Over 3♣, a splinter looks right, and I like our chances for slam if partner can cuebid a major.

[MickyB]

I'd bid 1H, 2C, 3S. We won't have a spade fit so I want to make sure pard knows I have four clubs. I wouldn't be too sure what bids meant with a pick-up partner over 1H:1N, 2S anyway.

[dkham]

Very often when you reverse you're bidding a suit partner can't have four of; the point is to show your strengh and shape isn't it?

[Cyberyeti]

I think if you bid 3♠ partner will bid 3N and there you'll play. On the actual layout I think you can make 6♣ but you wouldn't want to be in it. 3N is a decent spot, although a spade lead from 5 to the A might not be very nice. 5♣ is probably best, but not a lot better than 3N if at all.

 

3N is a horrible bid, but you're getting there anyway.

[wank]

your partner was pathetic with 3♣

[mike777]

I would have reversed into 2s since if pard bids an art. weakish 2nt I can bid 3c now to show my hand.

 

In this case pard will often bid 3d over 2s which is nat and gf and I will bid 3nt.

 

I expect north will pass 3nt.

[gszes]

majors first then nt and (a distant third ) minors

 

1h normal

1n we assume normal

2s no major suit fit this hand so we search for NT- we have 3 problem suits

for nt purposes lets start by showing stuff in spades and our extra values.

Another consideration is that slam will be unlikely if p has stuff in dia we need

to find out what p has.

 

 

IF p bids

 

2n we bid 3c to pattern out and show our obvious dia problem. If p cannot bid

3n we can probably safely play 5c or even 6c. p may even pass

 

3c p has a dia problem and so do we i suggest we bid 4d to show our pattern and

slam interest and let p decide where to go from there. If I were just a bit weaker or had

jacks vs queens I would bid 5c to show this hand but lack of slam interest.

 

3d p has a club problem and while they may have long dia it is better to bid 3n

rather than risk passing what may be just dia stuff for NT purposes. P can then bid

4d if all they have are long weak dia it is worth the extra level.

 

3h pretty good chance p is 3234 and no dia stop and has raised with Hx. Pattern out

with 4c and let p decide which suit to play in.

 

3s p has problems with both minors and has less than Hx in hearts maybe something

like AJx xx xxxx Jxxx p will almost always be very minimum for this bidding and I would

bid 4c which will allow p to pass with a complete minimum or bid 5c 4h or 4s.

 

3n pass slam very unlikely and while 5c may be safer many times there is no guarantee

we have a fit anywhere.

[Codo]

So, all the guys who reverse into 2 Spade:

 

Do you believe that a partnership who does not know that there are other club raises avaiable besides 3♣ will know whether

1♥ 1 NT 2 ♠ 2 NT is lebensohl or natural?

 

Will they know that

1 ♥ 1 NT 2 ♠ 2 NT 3 ♣ shows 4504 and not 4513? I had played partner for 4513, if 3 club shows 4504- like mike and others said- how do you show 4513?

If you reverse, they will more or less surely never play in clubs if partner holds less then 5.... Whether this is good or bad is open to discussion...

 

Surely ou must look for the majors first, then NT then minors. But if partner has no good diamond honours, and a shape like 3244 or 31(45)- is 4 Spade really the place to be with the long trump hand being shortend at trick one?

[mike777]

So, all the guys who reverse into 2 Spade:

 

Do you believe that a partnership who does not know that there are other club raises avaiable besides 3♣ will know whether

1♥ 1 NT 2 ♠ 2 NT is lebensohl or natural?

 

Will they know that

1 ♥ 1 NT 2 ♠ 2 NT 3 ♣ shows 4504 and not 4513? I had played partner for 4513, if 3 club shows 4504- like mike and others said- how do you show 4513?

If you reverse, they will more or less surely never play in clubs if partner holds less then 5.... Whether this is good or bad is open to discussion...

 

Surely ou must look for the majors first, then NT then minors. But if partner has no good diamond honours, and a shape like 3244 or 31(45)- is 4 Spade really the place to be with the long trump hand being shortend at trick one?

 

 

I cant show/promise 4=5=1=3 after 2nt(art/weakish). 3c promises 5=4=0=4 and is forcing. If I choose to rebid 2s over 1nt then I need to be prepared to respond to a 2nt(art/weakish) by pard.

 

so I need to make a decision do I rebid 2c or 2s over 1nt. My options would be pass(a supposed forcing but weakish bid), bid 3c, bid 3h or bid 3nt.

 

To make this decision even more complicated if pard is an unpassed hand 1nt can be quite a wide range here.

 

Pard knows with 4=5=2=2 or 4513 I may rebid 2c here so he should not go crazy with long clubs.

 

If with 4-5-1=3 and I rebid 2c then pard can bid 2s to show strong cl raise or 3c to show weakish raise, the danger would be if pard passes me in 2c but with a really weak hand and clubs that should be ok.

[mikl_plkcc]

I would have reversed, since 2♣ is non-forcing.