gnasher Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 64 KQ6 AK87 KQ102 1NT-3♥3NT-4NT 1NT = (14)15-17. Includes some 14s and all 4432 17s.3♥ = Spades, various hands. One of the options is a one-suited game-invitation.3NT = Would accept the one-suited invitation, only two spades4NT = Invitational to slam, 5(332). Asks "Are you good in context?" So, are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Asks "Are you good in context?" So, are you?Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 64 KQ6 AK87 KQ1021NT-3♥3NT-4NT1NT = (14)15-17. Includes some 14s and all 4432 17s.3♥ = Spades, various hands. One of the options is a one-suited game-invitation.3NT = Would accept the one-suited invitation, only two spades4NT = Invitational to slam, 5(332). Asks "Are you good in context?"So, are you? You are a king better than you could be for 1N but your ♠ are miserable and, subsequently, you have have shown a hand worth acceptance of a game invitation IMO you should try 5♠ (= how good are your ♠), as a blame re-transfer :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 No, you are not a king better than you might be. You already showed a hand that would accept an invite, and partner invited opposite that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 I would pass fwiw, it looks like partner has a 15 count and I have no fitting spade honor and no 5 card suit. 32 with no fit and not good fitting honors doesn't feel like a great slam. If partner had 4 spade honors he might have bid slam himself, he would know the value of the ten. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I would pass fwiw, it looks like partner has a 15 count and I have no fitting spade honor and no 5 card suit. 32 with no fit and not good fitting honors doesn't feel like a great slam. If partner had 4 spade honors he might have bid slam himself, he would know the value of the ten.I think partner could have an indifferent looking 16, say AKxxx, Jxx, QJx, AJ which doesn't look that tasty, but is in fact gold dust. You have 17 with an AK, 2 KQs and a 10, other than a high card in spades, you couldn't be much better. If I played this system, I'd have methods here, and would have 5♠/5N as invites with/without a spade honour whichever way I chose to use them, but I'd probably just bid the slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy_h Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Yes I think I would accept. No spade honours is a downside but I think my two (good) four card suits are just enough to compensate that especially with the club ten playing a huge role. Am I to assume partner has a 16 count (or pretty good 15) given that we would "accept game" with most 16's opposite an assumed 6S 7+-8 count? Well, here's to hoping partner has enough quacks for some juicy fillers! What are my methods over 4NT here? Maybe I should just bid 5NT to repass the buck to partner - but how is partner meant to know which quacks are good? HAJx DJ CAJx would be an awful combination but HA DQJ CJ would be a great one. On the other hand, I certainly don't want to be in slam in the (unlikely) event that we're off 2 aces if partner has the dreaded AKQJx J10x QJx J9 or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 4NT = Invitational to slam, 5(332). Asks "Are you good in context?"Practicing what I preach, I first had to accept gnasher's conditions. The conditions are that even though we have shown a maximum, their agreement is 4NT asks again. "In context" of already having shown a maximum with two Spades would, IMO, be specifically a fitting honor in spades or a side 5-bagger for a different source of tricks. I don't have either of those. But, that is just a guess about what 4NT really wants. We don't have any re-quants that I can think of; this 4NT seemed like Spadewood until Andy told us otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Practicing what I preach, I first had to accept gnasher's conditions. The conditions are that even though we have shown a maximum, their agreement is 4NT asks again. "In context" of already having shown a maximum with two Spades would, IMO, be specifically a fitting honor in spades or a side 5-bagger for a different source of tricks. I don't have either of those. But, that is just a guess about what 4NT really wants. We don't have any re-quants that I can think of; this 4NT seemed like Spadewood until Andy told us otherwise.I wouldn't fear playing in 5N on this auction, so I think you can use the space effectively. Whether it's worth investing a lot of time in this area of system is not clear, but using some artificiality over 4N would cover a lot of options eg: 5♣ = 5♣ no spade honour or 5♥ no spade honour or no 5 card suit no spade honour, 5♦ asks which 5♠/♥/N for the 3 options5♦ = 5♦ no spade honour or no 5 card suit with one, 5♥ asks, 5♠/5N for the 2 options5♥ = 5♥ and a spade honour5♠ = 5♣ and a spade honour5N = 5♦ and a spade honour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 I would pass. No spade honour and only one ace and I've already accepted a game invitation.Even assuming I'd open most good 17s with a 5-card suit something else, I could still have K10 A10x AK109 K109x, couldn't I? (Well, OK, probably not in spite of saying you'd open all 4432 17s 1NT, but you take the point) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted June 18, 2012 Report Share Posted June 18, 2012 Should 5NT be a re-invite or pick a slam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Responder's hand was AKJxx A109 Q10x Jx, so slam was very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 That is a pretty compelling example hand. Anyone wanna simulate partner having a 5(332) 15 and not 4 of the top 5 spades opposite our hand and see how often slam makes just for fun? Maybe I underestimated our CT, it rates to be a huge card opposite any club holding basically except for AJ with partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Should 5NT be a re-invite or pick a slam?What do you think? You already told your partner you had a maximum with 2 spades and he is inviting you. Do you think it's worthwhile to split your range in two again (in total, you would split 3 hcps in 8 by now)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yin970902 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I would bid 6NT ,as "4NT = Invitational to slam, 5(332). Asks "Are you good in context?"".partner has a strong suit ♠ .wow!6nt contract just need he has a other Ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 That is a pretty compelling example hand. Anyone wanna simulate partner having a 5(332) 15 and not 4 of the top 5 spades opposite our hand and see how often slam makes just for fun? Maybe I underestimated our CT, it rates to be a huge card opposite any club holding basically except for AJ with partner.It's interesting that you could take away all of partner's spot cards and slam would still be about 65%, but take away ♣J and it's awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 True, give partner QJT of diamonds or AJT of hearts instead of the club jack and it changes the hand a lot. Maybe I did not misjudge as badly as I thought, but it does seem like the CT will be significant a reasonable amount of the time which I did not grasp very well when I first replied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 What do you think? You already told your partner you had a maximum with 2 spades and he is inviting you. Do you think it's worthwhile to split your range in two again (in total, you would split 3 hcps in 8 by now)?I had the impression that other replies seemed to imply reinvite and was surprised by that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 With such premium honor quality and a very good ten, I would still accept. If I am only allowed to bid on with a spade honor then the description of 4NT should state that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 I had the impression that other replies seemed to imply reinvite and was surprised by thatYou're right, sorry. I am also surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 4NT = Invitational to slam, 5(332). Asks "Are you good in context?"So, are you?***What would 4C,4D,4H then some rebid mean? Partner didn't do anyof those.Is 'yellow rose of Texas' (Texas transfer and rebid to slam try) ON? So partner could have done that and his rebid now shows what to evaluate as golden.This 'in context' invite must be very distinct as no othertry was chosen.I go 6NT. Mostly to keep my reputation for bidding 120% of slams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 What would 4C,4D,4H then some rebid mean?A different hand. This is responder's only way to show 5332 and doubt about whether to bid slam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 Opener:64 KQ6 AK87 KQ102 Responder:AKJxx A109 Q10x Jx So, is gnasher's method better than plain old: 1NT - 2H!2S - 4NT! ( Quant ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 So, is gnasher's method better than plain old: 1NT - 2H!2S - 4NT! ( Quant ) What kind of comment is that? Obviously Andy's methods are better, his responder gets to invite slam after opener has described a maximum strong 1NT hand with 2 spades. In your hand reponsder gets to invite slam after opener has described a strong 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted June 19, 2012 Report Share Posted June 19, 2012 What kind of comment is that? Obviously Andy's methods are better, his responder gets to invite slam after opener has described a maximum strong 1NT hand with 2 spades. In your hand reponsder gets to invite slam after opener has described a strong 1NT. Yeah but normal methods get you there easily and gnashers method kept some people out and slam was quite good, so how can gnashers method be better??????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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