report to Programmers

[Joeydinky]

Hi All,

 

This is not necessarily for discussion but just to report hands to the programmers. I was told this is the proper way to do it. Game #6135, hand #8---How can Gib be programmed to bid a new suit(5S)at the 5L on the 10xxxx with 2 points. In a active auction with both opponents bidding my 5D bid was just competing. There is no way I can have 26-29 pts. 4Hs (620)was cold and 5Ds would have been down 3 dbld. for only 500 (a top). You need to program Gib for competitive auctions.

 

Game 1127 hand #4---2H - dbl - 3Hs - P; P - dbl - P - How can Gib be programmed to P with a stiff H and 2 four card minors. Again down 1 doubled is a lot better than them making 3Hs and certainly than -1130 3Hs making doubled.

 

Last hand--Game 2130 hand #9 Is GIB programmed to finesse? He was right to pull 3N bid to 4Ss but now he has to make the contract. Finesse the S and contract makes.

 

Thanks

[Bbradley62]

Game #6135, hand #8---How can Gib be programmed to bid a new suit(5S)at the 5L on the 10xxxx with 2 points. In a active auction with both opponents bidding my 5D bid was just competing. There is no way I can have 26-29 pts. 4Hs (620)was cold and 5Ds would have been down 3 dbld. for only 500 (a top). You need to program Gib for competitive auctions.

[hv=lin=pn|Joeydinky,~~M59750,~~M59748,~~M59749|st%7C%7Cmd%7C2S9AH46D568TKAC8TK%2CS8QH2TAD3C23579QA%2CS3567TH378D27QC6J%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%208%7Csv%7Co%7Cmb%7C1C%7Can%7CMinor%20suit%20opening%20--%203%2B%20C%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1H%7Can%7COne%20over%20one%20--%204%2B%20H%3B%206%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C2D%7Can%7CSimple%20overcall%20--%209%2B%20HCP%3B%20rebiddable%20D%3B%2010%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cd%21%7Can%7CSupport%20double%20-%203%20H%20--%203%2B%20C%3B%203%20H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C3D%7Can%7C4%2B%20H%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%203N%20%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7Ctwice%20rebiddable%20D%3B%2016%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7C3H%7Can%7C3%2B%20C%3B%203%20H%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%2012-22%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%203N%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4H%7Can%7C4%2B%20H%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C5D%7Can%7Cstrong%20rebiddable%20D%3B%2029-30%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C5S%7Can%7Cbiddable%20S%3B%204-%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7C4%2B%20H%3B%202%2B%20S%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C6D%7Can%7C1%2B%20D%3B%20biddable%20S%3B%204-%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7C2%2B%20D%3B%204%2B%20H%3B%202%2B%20S%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CSJ%7C]360|270[/hv]

[Bbradley62]

Game 1127 hand #4---2H - dbl - 3Hs - P; P - dbl - P - How can Gib be programmed to P with a stiff H and 2 four card minors. Again down 1 doubled is a lot better than them making 3Hs and certainly than -1130 3Hs making doubled.

[hv=lin=pn|Joeydinky,~~M50076,~~M50074,~~M50075|st%7C%7Cmd%7C2S23JAHTD27KC257KA%2CS46QKH7JKD358TJC6%2CS58TH9QD469AC39JQ%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%204%7Csv%7Cb%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C2H%7Can%7CWeak%20two%20bid%20--%206%2B%20H%3B%205-11%20HCP%20%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7C3-5%20C%3B%203-5%20D%3B%202-%20H%3B%203-4%20S%3B%2013%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7C3H%7Can%7C3%2B%20H%3B%203-8%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cd%7Can%7CTakeout%20double%20--%203-5%20C%3B%203-5%20D%3B%202-%20H%3B%203-4%20S%3B%2017%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CCQ%7C]360|270[/hv]

[Bbradley62]

Game 2130 hand #9 Is GIB programmed to finesse? He was right to pull 3N bid to 4Ss but now he has to make the contract. Finesse the S and contract makes.

[hv=lin=pn|Joeydinky,~~M55197,~~M55195,~~M55196|st%7C%7Cmd%7C3S5QAH46QDJQAC48QK%2CS29H23KD258KC2359%2CS34678HJD4679CTJA%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%209%7Csv%7Ce%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C2H%7Can%7CWeak%20two%20bid%20--%206%2B%20H%3B%2010-%20HCP%3B%209%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7C3N%7Can%7C2-5%20C%3B%202-5%20D%3B%202-5%20H%3B%202-5%20S%3B%2019-24%20HCP%3B%20stop%20in%20H%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4S%7Can%7C4%2B%20S%3B%2011-%20HCP%3B%206-12%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CC2%7C]360|270[/hv]

[Stephen Tu]

Joeydinky, the forum descriptions ask one bug per thread. "new thread for a new bug please". So next time make 3 separate posts. And ideally you should go to http://www.bridgebase.com/myhands , look up the hand in question, and copy & post the link to the movie, so we can see the hand (and Bbradley doesn't feel compelled to do this task for you). Even better is if you click on the movie, and copy the link parameters as Bbradley does so we can see the diagram inline in the forum. You copy everything after the "?" in the browser address bar, starting with "lin=", and then insert into your post [ hv=lin=.....]400|300[ /hv] leaving out the space after the brackets, copying the link after hv=.

 

 

Comments:

1. Yes common problem, GIB has defaults where if you keep on bidding a suit you show more and more total points which is wrong; it needs to be limited by initial action (non dbl), and bidding more should just be more shape not these 22+ total point assumptions. BTW it would not have been a "top" as you claimed, since the opps were not vul; -500 still would have been quite poor vs. -420. Georgi I think has already said some of these will be fixed next update, but don't know about your exact auction.

 

2. I've been seeing this a lot lately, GIB passing takeout doubles far too often when it thinks it can't make anything, and declaring side making doubled overtricks. It still has to pull. Not enough sim time? Book bid should be to pull takeout doubles, leave in only after sim. Also we've discussed how the description of 3H should be much wider range; perhaps this lack of accuracy is causing North's estimation of how strong E/W can be to be off, and thus the frequency of which 3h-x makes?

 

3. I *disagree* that GIB should pull on this auction. Over preempts, extra strong bal hands too strong for 2nt overcall are really supposed to double, then bid some appropriate # of NT, which shows flexibility and willingness for partner to pull to decent major, not jump to 3nt which should just mean "I want to play 3nt". Jump to 3nt should show *lack* of interest of partner pulling to random 5 cd majors. Typically it should be some strong running minor with a heart stop and not promising many spades at all, often doubleton or maybe stiff ace, and North's pull would look silly. I think the jump to 3nt here should be redefined, showing 1-3 spades not 2-5, and North shouldn't pull without substantially more extreme shape (and thus virtually never since didn't open weak 2).

 

As for the play, GIB is not programmed to finesse. It doesn't really know what a finesse is. It's kind of brute force figuring out all the different ways to play the cards on every hand, and choosing the best one on average given the time it has, and in essence rediscovering what a finesse is on every deal. So there's nothing that tells it "you should finesse here", nothing that can be changed. The only thing the programmers can really do is give it more thinking time, and kick in the Gibson single-dummy algorithm earlier, which does a superior job thinking in terms of "lines of play" to the double-dummy reasoning engine that is typically employed first few tricks (Gibson really slow when lots of cards still out).

 

On this particular hand, it's complicated by the fact that it's matchpoints. Finessing is bad when the K is off, since DK, diamond ruff, heart honor another d ruff for trump promotion being threatened. If West has KJ/K9/K?x playing ace and another is better, losing only 2 trump tricks instead of 3. And if East started with Kx doubleton, ace and another breaks even vs. finessing. My home GIB, if set to IMPs, takes the hook as best chance to make, but if set to MP played ace and another. What is truly best depends on estimation of what field contracts are and is complicated. I don't know how GIB does it, perhaps it doesn't, and just goes for max tricks on average at MP instead of trying to find an appropriate bonus weighting for contract making/set.

[Bbradley62]

This is not necessarily for discussion but just to report hands to the programmers. I was told this is the proper way to do it.

Of course, if you simply want to report hands to the programmers without posting them here for comment, you can accomplish this by clicking on "Export deal" and then "Send Robot Report".