What went wrong?

[pablo2110]

[hv=pc=n&s=sa62hk98642dakj6c&w=sq97htd7542ckj965&n=skj84ha5d983cat87&e=st53hqj73dqtcq432&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p1cp1hp1sp2dp2np3hppp]399|300[/hv]

 

I am North. We reached a bad contract. I was expecting my casual partner to raise to 3NT o 4♥ but his last bid of 3♥ left me in without nothing to say. I didnt like 4♥ with only two cards and 3NT without ♦ stop.

 

Was I forced to respond to his 3♥ bid sealing a contract considering his 4th suit as GF? Do his heart repetition means a 6+ cards? Slam interest?

 

Anybody can help me? Thanks

[helene_t]

Partner's 3♥ bid is forcing. He was too strong to bid 3♥ at his second turn so he started with fourth suit forcing. This is the way to show a strong hand with 6+ hearts.

 

I recommend playing 4th suit as a 100% game force. Makes it a lot easier to determine which bids are forcing and which are not. But even if some sequences after 4th suit can be passes, this 3♥ is certainly forcing.

 

Your third bid (response to his 2♦ bid) is difficult. He is asking you for more information but you haven't got anything to say. Depending on partnership agreement, you can bid:

- 2♥. The cheapest bid, and Ax is some sort of support.

- 2♠. Maybe this should show 5♠6♣ but that is an exotic shape so probably better to allow it with this kind of hands also.

- 3♦. Maybe it should show 4045 but again, that is an exotic shape. This bid is almost accurate but otoh it does take away a lot of space.

 

You shouldn't bid 2NT without a heart stopper.

 

After his 3♥ bid you have to support hearts. You already denied 3-card support and you even have the ace, so you can't possibly have better heart support than this.

[gszes]

bridge bidding is primarily the safe search for game or no game

in a major nt and lastly minors (a distant 3rd). Using this definition

if your p was invitational with 6h and 4d they would not care much

at all about the 4 card dia suit and would bid 3h immediately to

emphasize where the parnership main chance at game was.

 

Since your p took time to bid 2d (with a weak hand they would bid 2h

or 1n or 2c or 2s) then bid 3h they were still trying to determine where

to play game (or higher) but they have also shown their hand was not

invitational but gf or better. Principle of fast arrival happens often and

the failure to use it helps define many other auctions.

 

Even though your hand is minimum it is control rich and I would continue

worth a 3s cue bid in case p is thinking about slam. If your hand was

lacked so many controls I would be happpy with a 4h bid.

[pablo2110]

Thank you very much for your answers. Very clear explanations. By reading this forum I realize how much I still have to learn :)

 

One more question (sorry if I am too basic for this group):

 

I understand that 4th suit bid says nothing about my partner's strenght on that suit. Then my 3rd bid of 2NT was incorrect without a stopper in diamonds. We could have ended in a NT contract with no control in diamonds Is it right?

[Cyberyeti]

Thank you very much for your answers. Very clear explanations. By reading this forum I realize how much I still have to learn :)

 

One more question (sorry if I am too basic for this group):

 

I understand that 4th suit bid says nothing about my partner's strenght on that suit. Then my 3rd bid of 2NT was incorrect without a stopper in diamonds. We could have ended in a NT contract with no control in diamonds Is it right?

Correct, 2N shows a diamond stop, depends slightly on style and system what you should bid, but not 2N.

 

Whether you play fourth suit forcing to game or just for one round is irrelevant here, 4th suit followed by 3♥ says "I was too good to bid a non forcing 3♥ directly" and is forcing to game.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I have nothing to add to the arguments here.

3H was definitely forcing.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Those who play Walsh, would have Opener rebid 1NT rather than 1S, but the problem may not go away:

1C - 1H

1NT - 2D! ( NMF )

2S ( 4 cards ) - 3H

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Then there is the ( little used ) concept of the "Least Probable Rebid after a 4th suit GF " to distinguish between a 4-4 or the rare 5-6 hand when Opener has a problem rebid after 4th Suit GF ( 2D! here ):

a ) no 3 cards in Responder's major ( or would bid 2H )

b ) no 4 cards in the 4th suit ( or would bid 3D )

c ) no stop in the 4th suit ( or would bid 2NT )

d ) no 5 cards in opening suit ( or would bid 3C )

 

1C - 1H

1S - 2D!

2S! - 2NT ( responder might just bid 2NT to show ♦-stop(s) instead of 3H )

3H* ( 2 cards ) - 4H

____________________________________________

* any bid OTHER than 3S denies the 5-6 hand

[Phil]

I understand that 4th suit bid says nothing about my partner's strenght on that suit. Then my 3rd bid of 2NT was incorrect without a stopper in diamonds. We could have ended in a NT contract with no control in diamonds Is it right?

 

Just as badly, you could have ended up in 3N from the wrong side when partner had Kx, AQ, AJx, etc..

[Stephen Tu]

Whether you play fourth suit forcing to game or just for one round is irrelevant here, 4th suit followed by 3♥ says "I was too good to bid a non forcing 3♥ directly" and is forcing to game.

 

I don't see why this would be irrelevant. If you are playing a direct jump to 3h over 1s as forcing (an older style, as advocated by Bobby Goldman, Richard Pavlicek, which I feel has certain advantages and have never seen any convincing argument why modern fashion is superior), and put invitational hands through 4th suit 1rf, then this 3h is reasonably played as invitational.

 

If the direct jump to 3h is non-forcing (as most play these days), then the fourth-suit forcing auction would logically be forcing. If you are playing 2nd round jumps as inv, I don't really see how you can not play 4th suit as a GF, and only play it as "forcing one round". Which auctions wouldn't be GF in that case?

[Cyberyeti]

If the direct jump to 3h is non-forcing (as most play these days), then the fourth-suit forcing auction would logically be forcing. If you are playing 2nd round jumps as inv, I don't really see how you can not play 4th suit as a GF, and only play it as "forcing one round". Which auctions wouldn't be GF in that case?

1♣-1♥

1♠-2♦

2♥/2♠/2N/3♣-P

 

for example, it's GF (or just possibly F4m if stops missing) if responder bids again