Chamaco Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 4♦, clearcut. Tell pard where you live. His intermediate honors in the other two suits will shrink up, his big honors increase. That, and I don't like 4NT RKC for hearts, I use Kickback (4♠ is RKC for hearts). Who cares about his intermediate honors ? :-)Let's not talk in abstract but be specific and look at the specific posted hand: ♠ 9 ♥ Q97542 ♦ AKT42 ♣ 4 What do I need for slam ? I am not interested in pard's intermediates or potential misfit/double fit in side suits.I only need Keycards.Even if he has wasted QJs in the black suits, slam is still on based purely on the 3 missing aces and trump K. Anyways when I have time (probably in the weekend), I'll run some simulations cmparing bidding and results assuming that : 1) we bid 4D and if pard signs off because of side suit misfit we respect his choice and pass out (if we do not accept signoff, then it's much better to bid 4NT right away = unrevealing auction often avoid a killing lead) 2) we bid 4NT right away and proceed using RKCB. I will post the results. ----- BTW, I also prefer Kickback 4S but this was for beginners-intermediate. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 4♦, clearcut. Tell pard where you live. His intermediate honors in the other two suits will shrink up, his big honors increase. That, and I don't like 4NT RKC for hearts, I use Kickback (4♠ is RKC for hearts). Who cares about his intermediate honors ? :-)Let's not talk in abstract but be specific and look at the specific posted hand: ♠ 9 ♥ Q97542 ♦ AKT42 ♣ 4 What do I need for slam ? I am not interested in pard's intermediates or potential misfit/double fit in side suits.I only need Keycards.Even if he has wasted QJs in the black suits, slam is still on based purely on the 3 missing aces and trump K. Anyways when I have time (probably in the weekend), I'll run some simulations cmparing bidding and results assuming that : 1) we bid 4D and if pard signs off because of side suit misfit we respect his choice and pass out (if we do not accept signoff, then it's much better to bid 4NT right away = unrevealing auction often avoid a killing lead) 2) we bid 4NT right away and proceed using RKCB. I will post the results. ----- BTW, I also prefer Kickback 4S but this was for beginners-intermediate. :lol: Mauro: Pard is a good player (well he decided to play with US :) ) and will know the importance of his black suit aces and the Q or J♦ as well as the negatives of black kings and queens and xxx in ♦'s, but only after we bid 4♦. Who is in a better position to judge the final contract here, him or us? We know partner has: 1. At least 5 (potential) cover cards (the way I play)2. 12+ HCP3. At least four trump. Pretty vague if you ask me. OTOH, when we bid 4♦ we transmit: 1. At least an opening hand (OK, he knew that) 2. At least ten cards in the red suits3. (Subtly, and perhaps, more importantly) A hand that has some flaw that doesn't allow us to take direct control over 2N. If I held: x, KQxxxx, AKQxx, x then 4N is easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Mauro: Pard is a good player (well he decided to play with US :) ) and will know the importance of his black suit aces and the Q or J♦ as well as the negatives of black kings and queens and xxx in ♦'s, but only after we bid 4♦. Who is in a better position to judge the final contract here, him or us? We know partner has: 1. At least 5 (potential) cover cards (the way I play)2. 12+ HCP3. At least four trump. Pretty vague if you ask me. OTOH, when we bid 4♦ we transmit: 1. At least an opening hand (OK, he knew that) 2. At least ten cards in the red suits3. (Subtly, and perhaps, more importantly) A hand that has some flaw that doesn't allow us to take direct control over 2N. If I held: x, KQxxxx, AKQxx, x then 4N is easy. I am sure you and ur pard are good players and certainly better than me :lol: I was just stating my convinction here that our hand need only one piece of information, and that we do not ned to get pard involved in choosing the level of the contract since we only need keycards and actually even a good player could signoff if smelling a side suit misfit, even in such a case where we need only keycards. Bidding 4NT just takes off pressure from pard, we know more than he can never know :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Please define: Jacoby 2NT PLUS Why not start by showing your singletons, rather than the ♦? Bid 3♣ That lets pard re-evaluate his hand. If he has a concentration in ♣ he'll sign off in 4♥. Maybe he has strength in ♠ and the trump Ace and/or King.After pards 3♠ cue bid, you cue bid 4♦. Followed up with RKCBW.Give the slam a chance. (While its possible game will go down, I think thats unlikely and overly pessimistic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Hi.. rather than dilute this thread, which deals with jacoby 2NT, I will describe jacoby 2NT Plus in another thread here in the beginner/intermediate group, and I will use this very hand in that that discussion. Jacoby 2NT plus is described on the bridgematters website, and is part of the ETM Victory bidding system (but can be used by any system that is currently playing jacoby 2NT). Here is a link to the jacoby 2NT plus on their webpage http://www.bridgematters.com/jplus.htm The following is a link to the jacoby 2NT plus method, including what I consider is its pluses http://forums.bridgebase.com/ind...indpost&p=45117 ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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