Weighing the ups and downs

[mgoetze]

[hv=sn=mgoetze&s=SQJT42HAJTDAQJCT5&d=e&v=n&b=9&a=P1N(14-16)P2CP2SP5DP5S(1 or 4)P6CP]150|225[/hv]

 

The good news is, you have better trumps than partner might expect. The bad news is, you have ♦AQJ. Your bid?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Did you mean 0 or 3 ?

 

duhh ... I was looking at wrong bidder .

[mgoetze]

I have the ♥A, don't I?

[han]

Given that he has 1 keycard and he alerted 5S as 1 or 4, I suspect he meant 1 or 4.

 

I was kibitzing so know what partner has.

[JLOGIC]

What is 6C? I would have thought 5N would be queen ask, 6C king ask. But since I have the SQ, unless partner has 6 spades that doesn't make sense. I'd probably bid 6D and bid 6S over 6H.

[Finch]

I don't understand the auction.

Assuming 5D is voidwood, partner has taken control. I told him how many keycards I have and he's done something other than sign off.

 

I assume I have an agreement about the 6C bid, so you'd better tell me what it is.

If he was interested in my opinion, he wouldn't have jumped to 5D. He could (I assume) have bid 4D, or 3H (forcing raise). He didn't do any of them.

 

As he hasn't asked about the SQ he must be something like 6403. The ace of diamonds is thus useless and I seem to have a working 8-count in my 14-16 NT. If he isn't bidding grand himself, or asking for kings, I can't see how our hand can be what he is looking for.

 

If I am being asked my opinion, I seem to have an obvious sign-off: the only good thing about my hand is the doubleton club.

I could be looking at QJxx AK xxxx KQx. Now that really would be a good hand.

[mgoetze]

Sorry, no agreement about 6♣, you'll have to guess like I did. ;)

[bluecalm]

I assume I have an agreement about the 6C bid, so you'd better tell me what it is.

 

I agree. Are we asked to make fully informed decision or are we asked to guess what 6C was.

In the first case I look at my system notes about 6C in 2nd case I bid the grand as w/e 6C is it must be invite to 7 looking for something specific and this specific thing could be only 3rd round value in clubs.

If partner was interested in how well my hand fit opposite shortness or specific kings or w/e he wouldn't have bid the ERKCB but splinter or some other forcing bid.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I'm assuming partner has a 6-4 hand in the majors and went thru Stayman first:

6 4 0 3 ... or some such ... so he is not interested in the ♠ Q with a 10 card fit to the A K .

 

5NT ( next step ) would have been the ♠Q-ask.

 

So, 6C is K-ask ( excluding the ♦K.... you don't have any outsdide K, so the reply 6S

.... If you had the ♥K, then 6H would have been the reply .

.... If you had the ♣K, the 6NT would have been the reply

 

Now, since you made a point of the A Q J of Diam, the Grand is a 50% shot if partner is missing the ♣ K and the ♦ K is on sides. If you feel 6C was specifically asking for the ♣K, you might take a shot at the grand .

[mfa1010]

Partner has shown 6 spades from his failure to ask for the ♠Q. What hands could he have in the system with 6♠ that starts with 2♣?

 

Maybe it is a smolen type of hand.

I think I'm expected to assume that 5♦ includes a control in all suits when he seeks my opinion now, so he should have the ♥K.

6♣ should show the king.

 

♠AKxxxx, ♥Kxxx, -, ♣AKx?

♠AKxxxx, ♥Kxxxx, -, ♣AK?

♠AKxxxx, ♥Kxxx, -, ♣AKQ?

♠AKxxxx, ♥KQxx, -, ♣AKx?

 

I don't know how convincing these examples are. I try 6♦ and give up after 6♥. Whatever he has he should have a strong try for 7 for his bidding.

[bluecalm]

♠AKxxxx, ♥KQxx, -, ♣AKx?

 

This I think would bid direct grand.

Even opposite the worst possible hand: QJxx Axx KQJ Jxx which looks like the only 14 which doesn't guarantee 13 tricks the grand is very good and many very weak hands in the context like: QJxx AJx KQJ Jxx make it a laydown.

 

♠AKxxxx, ♥Kxxx, -, ♣AKx

 

This is more convincing to me. I am generally happy to play a grand with key queen missing (they lead the suit sometimes and if they don't I will make in 60%+ of cases anyway) but maybe 6D is better bid than 7S if we expect to score well for 6S anyway.

[Codo]

Without thinking as much as you all did, I would bid 7♠, because I hold third round control in clubs. :)

 

If partner had asked for kings, there would be no story. :)

[Fluffy]

partner has at least 5-4 in the majors, but probably 6-4 or 6-5 since he didn't ask about ♠Q

 

partner is asking for something else, third round club? he would have to have AKxxxx KQxx - AKx But then he doesn't need third round control, ♦A is just as good, at worse he would need a diamond finese if partner has the worst QJxx AJx KQxx Jxx , no, partner wouldn't risk an undiscussed 6♣ with that.

 

Partner must be seeking a heart card, and we do not cover it for a grand.

 

So I would bid 6♠ or maybe 6NT

[gwnn]

I bet 5 BB$ that partner has less than 6 spades. Any takers (other than mgoetze who knows the hands)? Anyway, I bid 6 spades because I don't know what 6♦/♥ would be and 6S must be the weakest bid.

[bluecalm]

AKxxxx KQxx - AKx

 

Partner must be seeking a heart card, and we do not cover it for a grand.

 

Well, wouldn't he bid that with: AKxxxx Kxxx - AKx ?

The grand is good opposite this because:

a)they may lead a heart

b)they may lead a diamond

c)if they don't and we take inference from lack of red suit leads and spade suit split we will get Qh right quite often anyway.

[Fluffy]

I see your point, chances of them leading a red suit are IMO close to zero, unless opening leader is void in trumps and has ♣Q. But that is something so grand is better than 50% then. Maybe you are right.

 

I would be unable to read anything from them not leading a red suit, leading dummy's void or side suit is awful.

[mgoetze]

I guess noone except Codo and possibly gwnn agrees with my partner's bidding? How would you have bid it?

 

[hv=sn=mgoetze&s=SQJT42HAJTDAQJCT5&n=sak93hk64cak9643&d=e&v=n&b=9&a=P1N(14-16)P2CP2SP5DP5S(1 or 4)P6CP6SPPP]300|225[/hv]

[gwnn]

With a queen ask from N. If you don't have a queen ask and/or don't know what 6-level calls mean (mind you, I'm often in this situation so I'm not criticising you/your partner), you need to guess. My comment above merely said that in this case, when we're not really sure on what's going on, it's not safe to assume partner has 6.

[Fluffy]

I would ask for my unavoidable loser (♠Q) and then bid grand wich just needs club doubleton with good breaks, 4 clubs with clubs 2-1 or queen fineseable, 3 clubs with clubs 2-2 (or queen singleton) or club queen to make.

 

EDIT: Now I take furher look, the above only gives you no club loser, for 13 tricks you need a little extra like good breaks or ♥Q or ♦A or ♦KQ and a finese.

[han]

With a queen ask from N.

 

Bingo.

[bluecalm]

Imo his bidding is ok'ish/lucky and we screw up. Above all though it's partnership fault. The 6C call was misunderstood.

I still think default should be ask for 3rd round control but maybe I am biased as this is what people in my country often play.

[cherdano]

The 6C call was misunderstood.

I still think default should be ask for 3rd round control but maybe I am biased as this is what people in my country often play.

I know this as a standard after RKCB. But here we would have no way to confirm all keycards ("to ask for kings") if 6♣ asks for third round control. You always need the cheapest step to be queen ask, and the 2nd cheapest to be the king ask.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I guess noone except Codo and possibly gwnn agrees with my partner's bidding? How would you have bid it?

 

[hv=sn=mgoetze&s=SQJT42HAJTDAQJCT5&n=sak93hk64cak9643&d=e&v=n&b=9&a=P1N(14-16)P2CP2SP5DP5S(1 or 4)P6CP6SPPP]300|225[/hv]

North has to realize that Exclusion is not the way to go with this hand.

Even if South shows only ONE key card after "regular RKC ", and let's say it is the ♦Ace ( thus missing the ♥ Ace ) , slam should still be on because of the point count. so, you won't get to the grand if Opener shows only 1 Ace .

 

But let's see what happens on this hand

 

The "regular RKC" should be 4C! = RKC for ♠ ( part of the Baze convention after Stayman ) .

 

South

1NT - 2C

2S - 4C!

4NT ( 2 + ♠Q ) - ??

......................Now 5C would be K-ask ( cheapest specific-K replies )

......................And 5D, 5H, 6C would be 3rd Rnd Ctrl-ask in the respective bid suit

 

Sooo, after - 6C

??

.. 6S = no 3rd Rnd ♣Ctrl

.. 7S = x x doubleton ♣

..6NT = ♣Q

.. 7C = ♣Q J

[cherdano]

What does this prove? RKCB will always work out better than EKCB when partner shows all the aces! You know more, and you know it at a lower level. Meanwhile, RKCB gives up any hope of finding grand opposite the ♥A without the ♦A - which may well be the best chance for a grand.

[kenrexford]

This auction seems to scream for an understanding that no one seems to recognize, which is rather shocking.

 

Responder started with 5♦ as Exclusion RKCB, and we responded 5♠. As Justin noted, 5NT seems obviously to be the Queen-ask. As Justoin also noted, 6♣ would seem to be the King-ask.

 

Where this breaks down, though, is in how you respond to this King-ask. You have three calls available:

 

6♦

6♥

6♠

 

Obviously, 6♠ should deny any King.

 

Obviously, as well, 6♥ should show the heart King and an inability to bid 6♦, whatever that would show.

 

So, in the context of an Exclusion sequence, excluding diamonds, what should 6♦ show?

 

Obviously, showing the diamond King would be stupid.

 

Justin seems to assume that 6♦ would show the diamond Ace, but how useful is that card? What -- partner has 7-4-0-2 shape? Please.

 

6♦, IMO, is the OBVIOUS surrogate for showing the one card that WOULD be useful -- the club King.

 

This is almost so obvious that it is laughable.

 

Having these definitions, then, in the actual auction Opener bids 6♠ because he has no round King. Duh. The problem, as some have noted, is that 6♣ was a bad call, and that 5NT stands out as equally obvious. In that sequence, NOW you can show the club King (if you have it) naturally by bidding 6♣, and you also have the ability to show (or deny) the diamond Ace if you want to. Arguably, though, it might make sense to have 6♦ in a Queen-ask 5NT auction show the club Queen, or possibly (preferably) the club Queen equivalent (club Queen, diamond Ace, or club doubleton with extra trumps). Kind of a "not quite grand slam last trian yet" call.

 

As to the actual auction, assumig the Exclusion start, 5NT would now get a 6♦ rebid by Opener (club Queen, club doubleton with extra trump length, or diamond Ace, but no club King, but in all cases with the trump Queen), which is not enough to know that the grand is making but is close.

 

A better sequence might be to use the tool of bidding the other major after a Stayman call reveals a major to set trumps. 1NT-2♣-2♠-3♥! as spades agreed, slammish. Opener now cannot cue 3♠ (spades not good enough), cannot bid 3NT (not serious), cannot bid 4♣ (no Ace or King of clubs), but bids 4♦ (diamond control). At that point, Responder could launch EKCB, with some parameters established. The same couple of bids results in the same 5NT Queen-ask. Now, the prior denial of a club control allows Opener to bid 6♣ to show the club Queen or a doubleton Queen with extra trump length (check). Responder can now, knowing that there is a diamond control of some form, bid 6♦ to ask for the diamond Ace, which Opener has (to provide a 13th trick, heart pitch), such that the grand is bid confidently. A very quick cuebidding sequence and the inferences therefrom enables a much better late-auction grand sniff.

 

(BTW -- I clicked the wrong box in the poll.)