MrAce Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 [hv=pc=n&s=s8hak43dqt654cj32&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=2np3cdp]133|200[/hv] 2NT=minors less than openerDBL= No agreement, exp partner, but obviously take out.IMPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 4H? I see no reasonable alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_clown Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 4♥. 3♥ is un underbid, 3♦ is forcing but will only complicate things (and partner may jump to 4♠ if he is 6-4), and considering any other bids is madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanoff Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Madness it might be, but you could just take a plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Nice pass Timo. Takes a little nad but I agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogs Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 3♥. I'm an underbidder. Like to maximize my chances of a plus score. If double guaranteed 5-5 in the majors, 4♥ would be clear. Don't think the ♦Q or ♣J is worth much for offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 3♦ should be 5-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rduran1216 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 4H by a mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 4H by a mile. by a mile? what does that mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'd pass, even without the UI from Phil's comments. I think it's normal to play that 3♦ shows 5-5 and double covers the less extreme shapes. If he has something like AKJxx AKxx xx xx, we can't make 4♥, but 3♣ will usually go one down on a trump lead. Move one of partner's aces to a minor, and we'll take a comfortable penalty against 3♣, with 4♥ in difficulties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'd pass, even without the UI from Phil's comments. I think it's normal to play that 3♦ shows 5-5 and double covers the less extreme shapes. If he has something like AKJxx AKxx xx xx, we can't make 4♥, but 3♣ will usually go one down on a trump lead. Move one of partner's aces to a minor, and we'll take a comfortable penalty against 3♣, with 4♥ in difficulties.Interesting scenario. Partner can not have AKxx when we do. However, if your assumption is correct, that partner can not have 5-5 in the majors, then partner will almost always hold only 4 hearts (where are all the spades?) and likewise will have more than one club, because you know where already 10 diamonds are, though I doubt that your chances are better in 4♥ if partner is short in clubs. I tried to simulate this scenario. My assumptions were: East at least 5-5 in the minors 5-10 HCP West clubs at least as long as diamonds North 4 hearts, 5 spades at least 12 HCP. Result with 100 deals (It took DMPRO a long time even to create 100 deals) 4♥ made on 65 deals , average number of tricks was 9.2 tricks. 3♣ made on just 2 deals, average number of tricks West made was 6.5 tricks. For me pass is right on the money Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I tried to simulate this scenario. My assumptions were: East at least 5-5 in the minors 5-10 HCP West clubs at least as long as diamonds North 4 hearts, 5 spades at least 12 HCP. Thanks for posting your exact simulation criteria. If these are East's criteria for opening 2NT, then I agree with pass. Hoaever, I think most would require some constraints on suit quality before opening 2NT. Also, I don't think you should build into the simulation that partner has 5=spades and 4=hearts. If you require 4-4 or 5-4 in the majors, this simulation will notice by itself that 5=4 is more likely than 4=5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Well, someone at the table did have 5-5 in the majors... LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'd pass, even without the UI from Phil's comments. I think it's normal to play that 3♦ shows 5-5 and double covers the less extreme shapes. If he has something like AKJxx AKxx xx xx, we can't make 4♥, but 3♣ will usually go one down on a trump lead. Move one of partner's aces to a minor, and we'll take a comfortable penalty against 3♣, with 4♥ in difficulties. Timo's style is AI to everyone on the forums :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I was the doubler and was 4-4-3-2. Building a simulation where partner is at least 5-4 in the majors is unnecessary. The fact that you are 1-4 in the majors and opener is (somewhat) short in both automatically makes it more likely that partner has 5 spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByChechi Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I think trivial . Whole deal maybe is :.................♠AJxxx.................♥Qxx.................♦Axx♠KQxxx.....♣A10....♠xx♥J10xxx.................♥x♦..-.........................♦KJxxx♣xxx.........♠x.........♣KQxxx .................♥AKxx.................♦Q10xxx.................♣Jxx What you want to play? I think 3♣DBL...! BUT...I will say 3♦ - natural and forsing ofcourse,with implied meaning 3NT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 AT MP if we are in slam territory I can see passing the x because setting 3c 3 tricksbecomes much more likely and could be a huge MP score (in what is probably anvery unusal auction). AT IMPS it seems like way too much risk of missing a game for a more likely down 1or down 2 if p is close to the min for their x. Our hand would like to ruff spades andpull trumps but we will have to settle for leading trumps. There is no reason to assume p is near minimum for their x. We could be selling out for 500 when we are due 980 this may be acceptable risk at MP where just getting 500 might be greatbut at imps it starts to become a large loss when slam is available. bid 4h at IMPS Who knows how high p can go?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 (in what is probably an very unusal auction).I would like to point out that this is an international forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jogs Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I was the doubler and was 4-4-3-2. Building a simulation where partner is at least 5-4 in the majors is unnecessary. The fact that you are 1-4 in the majors and opener is (somewhat) short in both automatically makes it more likely that partner has 5 spades. This thread was started by MrAce. Were you his partner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 This thread was started by MrAce. Were you his partner? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 4H. I would certainly not pass and think it is a poor call to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 [hv=pc=n&s=s8hak43dqt654cj32&w=saj952hj7652dcq84&n=skqt6hqt98dk83ca6&e=s743hdaj972ckt975&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=2np3cdppp]399|300[/hv] Here is the full deal. I passed as Phil predicted. It turned out to be not a bad decision. If you bid 4♥ you will end up either -100 or -300 depends on if W will double or not and/or the lead. Passing 3♣ +300 is available. Interesting, if you put a heart To Han's hand from West, and give a diamond to West, we still can not make 4♥ i suppose. We probably can make 3 NT from my side, but i dont think we can bid it. Not the same auction but we got another 3 minor doubled hand today. We collected +1400 this time but we had vulnerable game. Not a similar auction but basically another pass without trump stack but defensive values. This time i held Kxx of their suit (in front of overcaller) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Not the same auction but we got another 3 minor doubled hand today. We collected +1400 this time but we had vulnerable game. Not a similar auction but basically another pass without trump stack but defensive values. This time i held Kxx of their suit (in front of overcaller)But your opponents were weak at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 But your opponents were weak at that time. No, but my RHO was extremely operative :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 My partner has 3D: MM 2-suiter. He didn't, but Dbl: 3-suiter, bal, 1-suiter to show next.For me convert for penalties looks like a possible bonanza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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