bd71 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 [hv=pc=n&s=sq6haj643d8ckqt43&d=w&v=e&b=16&a=p1n(Good%2014-17)p2d(transfer)p2hp3c(2nd%20suit)p3h(Better%20than%20min%2C%20agrees%20hearts)p]133|200[/hv] Matchpoints. Your options are basically cue-bidding (1st/2nd round controls) or 4♥. How likely do you think slam is? What's your choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 I would bid 4 Club as a non serious slam try with no spade control. If partner has max and something in spades he will cooperate, else he won't.IF he holds Kxx,KQxx,Axxx,Axxx slam is laydown. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMoe Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Codo said it well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 IF he holds Kxx,KQxx,Axxx,Axxx slam is laydown.I don't super-accept as much as most posters, here; but, my Gawd...all primes, 4 trump? Partner would not have bid 2H with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanoff Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 I don't super-accept as much as most posters, here; but, my Gawd...all primes, 4 trump? Partner would not have bid 2H with that. He might not break with ♥KQx so worth a try with 4♣.But if 3♥ agreed clubs then I'd bid 3♠ to hopefully indicate the diamond shortage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 I don't super-accept as much as most posters, here; but, my Gawd...all primes, 4 trump? Partner would not have bid 2H with that.How about: Kxx, KQx, Axxx, Axx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 [hv=pc=n&s=sq6haj643d8ckqt43&d=w&v=e&b=16&a=p1n(Good%2014-17)p2d(transfer)p2hp3c(2nd%20suit)p3h(Better%20than%20min%2C%20agrees%20hearts)p]133|200[/hv] Matchpoints. Your options are basically cue-bidding (1st/2nd round controls) or 4♥. How likely do you think slam is? What's your choice? 4c no problem yet. over 4d will bid 4h. over 4h I will pass, fwiw 4s would be rkc so....npp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I would make the available nonserious slam try. Hand is way too good for 4H but not good enough for a serious try imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Serious / Non Serious generally does not apply when one hand is limited. 4♣ is a slam try, but it doesn't mean we have to go past 4♥. Most importantly, it denies a spade control. The question is, is a spade control enough for us to risk the 5 level? I think it probably is but we may have to guess to bid 6. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I would make the available nonserious slam try. Hand is way too good for 4H but not good enough for a serious try imo I have no idea what this means or how to bid it. Did OP tell us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Serious / Non Serious generally does not apply when one hand is limited. 4♣ is a slam try, but it doesn't mean we have to go past 4♥. Most importantly, it denies a spade control. The question is, is a spade control enough for us to risk the 5 level? I think it probably is but we may have to guess to bid 6. Why is serious/NS off? I would like to see whether my partner has one of the examples hand given here or a hand like AKx,Qxx,AKxx,xxx. And I doubt that you have a better use for 3 NT with a mojor fit opposite a twosuiter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 IF he holds Kxx,KQxx,Axxx,Axxx slam is laydown. Specially because tricks 14th and 15th are most likelly ours :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Why is serious/NS off? I would like to see whether my partner has one of the examples hand given here or a hand like AKx,Qxx,AKxx,xxx. And I doubt that you have a better use for 3 NT with a mojor fit opposite a twosuiter... The general rules about serious / NS is that 1) we are in a game force, 2) we have an 8 card major fit (+), and 3) both hands are relatively undefined as to strength. After a 1N opening, many pairs don't play serious. However, here its unlikely that responder wants to suggest 3N, so you could play it as some sort of 'rolling' bid, or a cue bid related to trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 The generalMy rules about serious / NS isare that 1) we are in a game force, 2) we have an 8 card major fit (+), and 3) both hands are relatively undefined as to strength. FYP. Not every general rule is generally played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I'm with Phil, I am surprised anybody would play (non)-serious here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Disagree Zelandakh, these are fairly standard rules. Why is serious/NS off? I would like to see whether my partner has one of the examples hand given here or a hand like AKx,Qxx,AKxx,xxx. And I doubt that you have a better use for 3 NT with a mojor fit opposite a twosuiter...Even if you don't think 3NT should ever be the final contract here, it's easy to find better uses for 3NT: shape specific slam try (i.e., 2=5=2=4). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I doubt that Phils third rule is a general rule in Germany. At least I know nobody who play it his way, but some who use ser3NT even after limited (NT)openings. And whether it is useful to use your idea is not clear at all. If you play ns/s you may find out whether openers hand has many wasted values in diamonds and spades and whether or not he has a spade control and all of this below 4 ♥. If you play your style, how shall partner cooperate? He knows your shape, but cannot pass, as you you have an unlimited slamtry. So- shall he always bid his lowest control? Shall he- as the limited hand -take over control and ask you about your controls/KCs? At least for me it makes no sense to have this agreement in addition to ser/nonser3NT, but like always- taste may differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I doubt that Phils third rule is a general rule in Germany.I doubt that "general rules in Germany" are a good indication as to the proper application of modern bidding theory. ;) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 This is really interesting. I opened 1N holding AK109x / 98x / AKx / xx 1) Do you agree? [(14)15-17]---- After partner bid hearts and clubs, I thought AK AK -- even in side suits -- was too good for 4H, so I bid 3H. 2) Do you agree?---- 3) If we agree to play NS3S here, regardless of what's standard, what is your approach with my hand after 4C? 4) Suppose that we agree that NS3S is off here. ...4a) If we have no agreements about LTTC, is 4D clear?...4b) If 4D is LTTC, would you still make the bid, though it's ambivalent about diamond controls? ---- I thought NS3S was on, so I assumed 4C was serious. I think 4D is clear (now) but I KC'd which I think is pretty terrible, since it takes captaincy from partner. ♥H10x was off, so we were -1 in 5H. Had I bid 4D over 4C, I would have bid over 4H anyway (again, thinking 4C was serious), so probably same result, but I really felt unsure about a lot of calls in this auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I doubt that Phils third rule is a general rule in Germany. At least I know nobody who play it his way, but some who use ser3NT even after limited (NT)openings.In other news, US expert standard bidding is superior to German expert standard bidding. (Sorry for the bold statement, but I have really no doubt that this is true.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 This is really interesting. I opened 1N holding AK109x / 98x / AKx / xx After partner bid hearts and clubs, I thought AK AK -- even in side suits -- was too good for 4H, so I bid 3H. 2) Do you agree? Certainly no. Zero honnors in partner´s suit, only 3 low trumps, and a king below maximum you gotta be kidding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 FYP. Not every general rule is generally played. It would be a surprise to me, if 3 NT meant serious-nonserious, without prior agreement. I agree with Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Whether or not you use 3 NT as ser/non serious in these and analogous situations is not written down on CCs. So if you want to judge what is standard, you should talk about the guys you know. My experience with US Experts is non existence, but I know some bidding systems from guys who play here, where I live. May someone share some (more) names of people who do not play ser/nonserious in situations like this one, but do so after other openings? After all, this could be the only way to decide if something is standard or not... BTW: I would ask Italian experts, if I ever have a question about modern and effective bidding. With no Italians avaiable, I would ask the top polish pairs. But as much as we all agree that the top pairs from the US bid (and play) better then the top german pairs, there may be no consensus about this opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 This is really interesting. I opened 1N holding AK109x / 98x / AKx / xx 1) Do you agree? [(14)15-17]---- After partner bid hearts and clubs, I thought AK AK -- even in side suits -- was too good for 4H, so I bid 3H. 2) Do you agree?---- 3) If we agree to play NS3S here, regardless of what's standard, what is your approach with my hand after 4C? 4) Suppose that we agree that NS3S is off here. ...4a) If we have no agreements about LTTC, is 4D clear?...4b) If 4D is LTTC, would you still make the bid, though it's ambivalent about diamond controls? ---- I thought NS3S was on, so I assumed 4C was serious. I think 4D is clear (now) but I KC'd which I think is pretty terrible, since it takes captaincy from partner. ♥H10x was off, so we were -1 in 5H. Had I bid 4D over 4C, I would have bid over 4H anyway (again, thinking 4C was serious), so probably same result, but I really felt unsure about a lot of calls in this auction.1. yes 2. no- this hand is a classic example why the "polish style" (at least I learned it from there...) to upgrade for honours in the long suits is superior.3. 4 ♥4 a No idea, if you must show a control, you must bid 4 ♦, but as I have no experience with this style, I do not know what you have to do here. 4 b no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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