microcap Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 You hold [hv=pc=n&n=sk65hjt985dqjt75c]133|100[/hv] in 3rd hand at teams. Partner opens 1♣, could be 2 cards. RHO overcalls 1♦, you bid 1♥, pass by LHO, partner bids 1♠, pass by RHO. You have an awkward rebid...what's your best lie and why? As always, the table result and argument will come later! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 :P Pass. Game our way is remote. 1♠ is NOT forcing in any system I know of. The contract of 1♠ should be reasonable. A Pass really puts pressure on LHO. If he/she does not pass, it gives you and partner good information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 curiosly 1♠ is forcing on any system I know. Pass is reasonable since the hands where 1♠ can be very strong are 4144 and that is impossible now also the club void makes this hand subminimum for any game purposes, but I would go with 1NT anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 1♠ isn't forcing for me but I bid 1N anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 1 ♠ is nonforcing to me, so I am happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 1♠ is non-forcing, I'm passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 1♠ is non-forcing, I'm passing. ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statto Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'd like to know the vul and scoring, but probably 1NT > 2♠ > Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'd like to know the vul and scoring, but probably 1NT > 2♠ > Pass. you are told teams and you are nv in OP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statto Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 you are told teams and you are nv in OPSorry, missed that, but not told opps vul... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 1♠ rebid by opener is not forcing,so pass is a good idea with min hand ,then waiting for a chance to do penalty double if opps go on overcall at the 2 of level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microcap Posted June 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Most of you got this right, but I suggest that the few of you who bid 1NT [as did Rex at the table] should strongly reconsider! I mentioned this argument and Rex's 1NT bid at the table to our regular teammates. They both scrunched their faces like kids eating their vegetables :blink: I held a fun and potentially powerful collection of: [hv=pc=n&s=saq74had5ckjt7532]133|100[/hv] When my partner shows me a balanced hand, I think I can take 9 tricks in NT if he has either club honor or even 2 small and I can pick up the queen. It didnt go well for obvious reasons. My bidding screams a misfit with 9-11 black cards, I cannot for the life of me understand a 1NT bid. If anything, a 2♠ raise on 3 cards is the only other option besides pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Uh... can't you be 4=3=2=4 or so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 When my partner shows me a balanced hand When did your partner do so? I am impressed Jay, this is the first time you post a hand to argue against your partner, not to hear opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 You raised 1NT to 3NT on the 4117 hand? I think that's more deserving of a scrunched up face than anything your partner did. 3♣ looks normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Yes, I agree with what Andy wrote. However, I also agree that 1NT was a bad bid and that those who bid it should reconsider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 came to party late as usual have seen openers hand. Does not change my opinion. I am not going to rage over the 3n bid which I think was overly optimistic (choose 3cbecause we arent making 3n if p cant provide a club honor and exta values hmmmwhat about 5c though). IMO after 1s responder has no fear of rebidding 1n. The bidding does not requireresponder to be balanced here they merely have promised 1 dia stop and nospade raise. From responder POV there is no reason 4h cant still be a viable gameso they need to make a bid that allows hearts to be found yet still keeps the biddingas low as possible in case there is a misfit (like this hand). I would give some creditto a 2s bid (huge favorite to be a 3 card raise since we did not neg x) but that puts the partnership in a bind when opener has a much more balanced minimum type hand and also makes finding hearts much more difficult if opener is a bit stronger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 IMO after 1s responder has no fear of rebidding 1n. The bidding does not requireresponder to be balanced here they merely have promised 1 dia stop and nospade raise. From responder POV there is no reason 4h cant still be a viable gameso they need to make a bid that allows hearts to be found yet still keeps the biddingas low as possible in case there is a misfit (like this hand). I would give some creditto a 2s bid (huge favorite to be a 3 card raise since we did not neg x) but that puts the partnership in a bind when opener has a much more balanced minimum type hand and also makes finding hearts much more difficult if opener is a bit stronger. I pretty much agree with gszes's assessment of why you should respond. It is possible that opener could hold something like ♠ AJxx ♥ AQx ♦ x ♣ KJ10xx and 4 ♥ even has a play. As for opener, the hand has only 14 HCP but is a 4 loser hand. The outstanding feature is the ♣ suit, so there's no reason not to tell partner that with your rebid. 3 ♣ looks about right because it's just possible you might have 3 ♣ losers if the hand is a misfit. Responder then can cooperate in finding the best spot. Responder will know that any ♣ honors held even a stiff can carry full value. Unfortunately, in this case, responder should just pass. It's a good bidding policy to never place cards in partner's hand until bridge logic tells you they are there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microcap Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I always appreciate the replies and in general Rex and I use the answers to resolve our differences [of which there are millions]. Sometimes I feel stronger about my position than others! In this case, I think 1NT is really a poor choice. To answer someone's question, and I should have clarified this earlier, In our system, we would not be 4-2-3-4 on this auction--hence my comment about the at least 9 black cards in this hand. Sorry. I have no issue with the criticisms of 3NT-- 3♣ is probably better and I would like to think at MP's that's what i would bid. At teams I just felt that 3NT was the most likely game. As noted, about the worst hand would be 3-5-4-1 and even then, if the queen comes down or the singleton is an honor, I like my chances in 3NT. It has to be a pretty good rule not to bid notrump with a void in partner's first bid natural suit...comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 It has to be a pretty good rule not to bid notrump with a void in partner's first bid natural suit...comments? 1♠-(pass)-?? ♠-♥KJ942♦J92♣Q10652 I can make it much worse probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 1♠-(pass)-?? ♠-♥KJ942♦J92♣Q10652 I can make it much worse probably.Assuming that 1NT is natural, the 1NT response is bid on this hand not because you want to play in 1NT but because you don't have any choice. 2 of any other suit shows much more in power than you have, and you certainly can't raise spades. So, since you have to keep the bidding open, you are forced to bid 1NT. Partner understands that 1NT doesn't promise a balanced hand or any sort of spade support. But you knew that when you posted it. By the way, I agree with the pass of 1♠ on the original hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 [duplicate post] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 It has to be a pretty good rule not to bid notrump with a void in partner's first bid natural suit...comments?If you mean that you should never bid notrumps at any stage in the auction, that's obviously an awful rule. If it went1♣-(1♦)-1♥1♠-2♦3♣presumably you'd be happy for responder to bid 3NT with a 3550 13-count. On the first round of the auction, a natural notrump bid should show a balanced hand, because with an unbalanced hand you should be showing your suits. As you exchange information about shape, bidding notrumps becomes less descriptive of a balanced hand, and more of a strain suggestion in the context of what has been shown already. That applies to this sequence, given your methods. Responder already knows a lot about opener's shape, so bidding notrumps just says "Given what you've shown, I think notrumps is likely to be our best strain." As opener has promised five clubs, responder will give preference to clubs on almost all hands with three of them, and some hands with two. Hence 1NT will often have short clubs, though 1 or 2 is more likely than 0. The main reasons for passing 1♠ on this responding hand are that game is unlikely, 1♠ is likely to make, and bidding again may get you too high. However, if you add some high cards to the responding hand without changing the shape, at some point it will become worth 1NT because of the possibility of game. Kxx KJ10xx QJ10xx -, for example, is too good to pass 1♠, so what can you bid but 1NT? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microcap Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 thank you all for pointing out that I was too glib with my comment about bidding NT with a void in partner's suit. Perhaps better is "Try really really hard in a competitive auction not to bid NT with a void in partner's suit." I think I read that somewhere in a column in my life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 :P Pass. Game our way is remote. 1♠ is NOT forcing in any system I know of. The contract of 1♠ should be reasonable. A Pass really puts pressure on LHO. If he/she does not pass, it gives you and partner good information. Pass is forcing for me in EVERY partnership I play. I would bid 1NT now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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