pclayton Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 ♠Txxxx♥xxx♦K♣KJT9 Pard opens 1♦; 1♠; 3♣ by pard..your call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanrover Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Why is this so specific to 2/1 (as opposed to , say, SAYC) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 The topic title means that I hate the jump shift and reverse structure in 2/1. Frequently you have to invent a reverse or jump shift to create a force with semi-strong hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 4C...seems too easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 The topic title means that I hate the jump shift and reverse structure in 2/1. Frequently you have to invent a reverse or jump shift to create a force with semi-strong hands. Are you worried that partner only has 3♣? Can you construct a hand where partner would bid like this where 1. he has 3♣, and 2. you are not making 5 or 6 ♦? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 4C. Seriously wtp? If partner has only 3C he is a nutter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 i dont deny that he could have 3 clubs but even if he does my clubs and diamond king are cold. 6D or a moysian could play very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xx1943 Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 i dont deny that he could have 3 clubs but even if he does my clubs and diamond king are cold. 6D or a moysian could play very well. opener can have a strong 3-card support for spades too and no heart stop i.e: [hv=s=sakjhxxdaqxxxcaqx]133|100|[/hv] Don't tell me you open this one 2NT. :angry: Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 i dont deny that he could have 3 clubs but even if he does my clubs and diamond king are cold. 6D or a moysian could play very well. opener can have a strong 3-card support for spades too and no heart stop i.e: [hv=s=sakjhxxdaqxxxcaqx]133|100|[/hv] Don't tell me you open this one 2NT. ;) Al But on this one, he'll put you back into 4♠ when you bid 4♣ And why not open it 2NT (if your range includes this strength hand)? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 "Don't tell me you open this one 2NT. " Of course this is a 2N opening. What on earth else would you open? Surely not 1D! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 definitely open it 2N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helium Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 i dont deny that he could have 3 clubs but even if he does my clubs and diamond king are cold. 6D or a moysian could play very well. opener can have a strong 3-card support for spades too and no heart stop i.e: [hv=s=sakjhxxdaqxxxcaqx]133|100|[/hv] Don't tell me you open this one 2NT. ;) Al whats wrong whit 2 nt??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben47 Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Open 2NT, 3♣ is a strong unbalanced hand with 4+♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poky Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 The topic title means that I hate the jump shift and reverse structure in 2/1. Frequently you have to invent a reverse or jump shift to create a force with semi-strong hands. This isn't completely true. You can still play 2/1 and adopt a very powerful Gazzilli structure to modify opener rebids. Playing Gazzlli the way I do the changes in rebids after opening 1M are:2♣= multi, natural 11-15 or some unspecific 16+ hands (usually 5431/6431) (with 2♦ asking for clarification)2NT= GF one-suiter, usually 18+jump shifts= GF two-suiters, minimum 5-5 and 18+ This way you can even improve your 1NT opening by never opening it with 5M. Holding 5M332 you bid:1) With 15-16= 1M->2♣->2NT2) With 17-19= 1M->2♣->3NT3) With 20-22= 2NT+puppet Also you can use the 1♥-1NT-2♠ sequence to show a weak 6♥5♠ hand cause the natural reverse could go through Gazzilli: 1♥->2♣->2♠. A lot of improvements and almost nothing to lose (except 1M-1A-2m beeing NF). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 The topic title means that I hate the jump shift and reverse structure in 2/1. Frequently you have to invent a reverse or jump shift to create a force with semi-strong hands. Some people in Italy play the "generic reverse", e.g. bidding next step above suit rebid shows an unspecified reverse (saying nothing about 2nd suit) and is asking responder to describe.This way you can save bidding space on many hands, such as the one you posted, where after 1♦:1♠:? rebid would be 2♥ artificial (not promising anything in ♥). I don't know the details of the followup, but it seems to me that even using a "natural-like" set of responses (suit rebid or pref to responder with a weak hand, possibly 2NT Ingberman for discriminating the strength of 3-level bids) instead of shape/strength showing relay structure , there should be room for improvement opposite std methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 I don´t see the problem playing 2/1, just bid 4sf followed by 5♣ if partner doesn´t have ♥ stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 ♠Txxxx♥xxx♦K♣KJT9 Pard opens 1♦; 1♠; 3♣ by pard..your call? I would say this is not that diffiuclt, let alone to say this is the weakness of 2/1. Just bid 3H, pass pd's 3N, raise 3S to 4S, otherwise bid 5C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Continuation....................... ________________________________________________ OK; I bid 4♣. It seemed safe enough, since if pard has the big single suiter and a club fragment, diamonds or clubs should still play OK. I like my hand; My clubs fill up his fragment and my K♦ is a huge card. Pard bids 4♦. Now whats your call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 do you play the j/s is forcing to game? if so i bid 5D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Continuation....................... ________________________________________________ OK; I bid 4♣. It seemed safe enough, since if pard has the big single suiter and a club fragment, diamonds or clubs should still play OK. I like my hand; My clubs fill up his fragment and my K♦ is a huge card. Pard bids 4♦. Now whats your call? Hehe, is pd jumping shift with 63 d and c? not impossible. I think 4C is a bit rush, perhaps 3H waiting would be better. I think I will bid 5D. If pd has real diamond suit, then this should plays better than 5C. If pd has real club suit, then 4D should imply slam interest. In that case 5D shows a high card and he may bid 6C. Both suits me well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 do you play the j/s is forcing to game? if so i bid 5D Are we sure 4D isnt cue bid for club contract ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 With this partner, the jump shift s/b game force. Adding yet some more uncertainty to the 4♣ call...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 I'm not too strong, but with those fillers in pard's suits, I'm quite ok for a 4C bid. After pard's 4D, I bid 5C (nothing more to add - 4C is already a strongish bid in the way I'm used to play). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 So partner has only 3♣ ? that is consistent only with 7♦ suit, and then he would had bid 5♦, not 4♦. So wich such garbage you decided to bid 4♣ instead of 5?, what are you waiting to bid them then?. Some explanation of why he cannot have 6♦3♣: -If he has any 6322 he would bid 2NT.-If he has a 3163 he would obviously bid 2NT to be able to get back the ♠ fit after a relay.-If he has 1363 he has a much cheaper reverse: 2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Just keep on bidding C and he will learn not to manufacture stupid bids in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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