How strong do you feel?

[bd71]

[hv=pc=n&s=sk765h3dakq9ckt62&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1dp1sp]133|200[/hv]

 

Matchpoints. Mainstream 2/1 agreements.

 

Listed plenty of options in the poll, but I presume the choice will be between 3♠ and 4♥.

 

If you choose 3♠, would changing one black king to an ace bump you up to 4♥, or does it require even more?

[mike777]

Other

 

 

3H splinter.

 

Prefer a bit more for a 4h splinter.

[ahydra]

2S, like the Holy Hand-Grenade "5", is right out! But I can't decide between 3S and 4H. If I go 4H it sounds like I've got a bit more than I have. If I go 3S it sounds like I might not have such a great shape/trick source in diamonds. Meh, I pick 4H.

 

Mike: That's interesting. I see 2H is a reverse so 3H can be a splinter - ideal here. Time to discuss this with my partner though!

 

ahydra

[ArtK78]

I agree with Mike. 3♥ invitational splinter.

 

When available, a double reverse should be an invitational to game splinter. You still have the full splinter (4♥) available to you for the appropriate hand.

 

Lacking a 3♥ splinter, I would bid 3♠, and changing a K to an A wouldn't change my call. You must allow for a light response by partner, and you have no idea how much of partner's values are wasted.

 

A 4♥ splinter is a big overbid. It implies that I have a game forcing hand PLUS a heart singleton, and it is a slam try. If I were to bid more than 3♠, it would be 4♠, not 4♥.

 

Edit:

 

The double reverse (3♥ on this hand) is an invitational splinter. But it can also be used as a massive hand with a singleton or void in hearts too good for a 4♥ splinter. You just bid again after partner signs off in 3♠. If partner does not sign off in 3♠, so much the better.

[aguahombre]

If the rebids according to your style are:

2S=minimum

3S=16-18 support points (unbalanced by inference)

4S=balanced 18-19

Spl=unbal 19-21 support points

etc,

 

Then, is is an easy 3S; no need to "feel", just evaluate and let partner "feel".

[Phil]

In my methods this is a 3♠ call, not 3♥.

 

But generally agree this is too strong for a raise to 2 and too weak to be a GF.

[Zelandakh]

When available, a double reverse should be an invitational to game splinter.

Should it? There are several possible uses for this bid. I agree that using it as an invitational splinter (or some GF hands) is not a bad idea, but other uses are also logical. I do note that you choose to use this 3♥ bid to give you 3 ranges of splinter. Another option is to use it to differentiate between singletons and voids in game-forcing hands.

 

That also leads towards the idea of using 3♥ only for a range of GF hands, for example a void splinter or GF 1-suiter, or whatever other GF hand types your system has an issue with. Of course the most common alternative meaning for 3♥ here is a "super-reverse", that is a 6-5 hand that is too light in hcp for a normal reverse but nonetheless has enough playing strength. I think the invite (or better) splinter is the most common use though.

[han]

I like to play 3H as stronger than 3S. I believe our system says that 3S is about (14)15-16 and 3H is 17-18.

 

That makes this an obvious 3H bid. Partner can ask for shortness by bidding 3NT.

 

If you play that 3H is an invitational splinter (which is what I would assume when undiscussed with a North American partner) than this is also an obvious 3H bid.

 

In short, I'm bidding 3H!

[Fluffy]

If you choose 3♠, would changing one black king to an ace bump you up to 4♥, or does it require even more?

I'd rather have 5431 than bump a king into an ace.

[han]

I'd rather have the ace.

 

Kxxx

x

AKQx

Axxx

 

I think it is close but I wouldn't. If we had x Kxxx AKQx Axxx then I would definitely splinter after 1D - 1H. The reason I don't do it here is that there is no room left for partner. In this case the splinter should have a narrower range and I think this beautiful 16-count falls just outside of that range for me.

[phil_20686]

I think cheapest splinter = 18-19 balanced with four card support is a nice treatment here.

 

In general agree you should use it to dive up the ranges for 3S in some way, have played han's treatment too, and liked it.

[han]

have played han's treatment too, and liked it.

 

It's fairly new for me, but I like it too! It's simple and it comes up reasonably often.

 

We play that after both 3H and 3S responder can ask with 3NT. Then:

 

4C = 4252

4D = low shortness

4H = high shortness

4S = balanced.

 

The balanced hand cannot occur after 1m - 1S- 3S because we play strong notrumps.

 

After 1C - 1S we use all of 3D, 3H and 3S for different strengths, but perhaps this is overkill. I know a pair that plays 1C - 1S - 3H specifically as a minimal 5-6 with hearts.

[Phil]

I've been playing:

 

A: 1♦ - 1♠ - 3♥ = 17+ - 19 HCP balanced. This is useful because we can still play 3N.

 

B: 1♦ - 1♠ - 3♠ = 17 - 19 support points with shortness. 3N asks and then its a simple low (shortness) min / low max / high min / high max response.

 

In cases where we don't have the in-between call like 1♦ - 1♥ - 3♥, 3♠ is still an asking bid, but then 3N = no shortness (hand "A") and responder can pass, 2nd step = low shortness (next step is LTTC), 3rd step = high shortness min, 4th step = high shortness max.

[CSGibson]

Add me to the splinter-with-3♥ group.

[SteveMoe]

Jump reverse is a splinter, but many of partner's minimums will not let us win 10 tricks (try 3 Qs). Not sure we can stop in 3♠ after the jump reverse as partner would bid that w/extras (fast arrival).

 

On the other hand QJ in the blacks are enough aren't they. Maybe the better strategy is to trot out 2♣, risking partner's pass, but we'd be in trouble at 4♠ when partner would pass 2♣ anyway.

 

Here's how I'd bid after partner's rebids...

2♦ - 3♠ implying short Hearts and about these values. Partner can pass with waste values.

2♥ - 4♥ splintering in the 4th suit...(3♥ is forcing and shows 4 cards).

2♠ - 3.5♠ - yep I really bid 4...

2N - 4♠ partner has 8 losers...

3♣ - 4♠ another 8 loser option.

 

Net I need working cards in a 9 loser hand from partner. Hopefully this approach helps ferret that out.

[CSGibson]

Jump reverse is a splinter, but many of partner's minimums will not let us win 10 tricks (try 3 Qs). Not sure we can stop in 3♠ after the jump reverse as partner would bid that w/extras (fast arrival).

 

(snip)

 

I'm sorry, but you obviously don't understand fast arrival. That only applies when we are already in a game force, but one of the benefits of the 3♥ splinter is that you can use it with a slightly weaker hand because you aren't forced to game.

 

Here 3♠ is the weakest possible action, and suggests playing there, while 4♠ should be stronger.

[mikeh]

My preference for 3♥ is for it to show an invitational or better splinter.....partner assumes it was invitational and bids accordingly. Responder bids 3♠ with all game-negative hands, bids 4♠ with game positive but no slam interest opposite a game force splinter, and otherwise cuebids. That latter sequence is ambiguous, in that responder could be slamming opposite a game-invitational or only opposite a game force splinter, but there is room to work it out and it is possible to use 3N here artificially. 3N = real slam interest only if you have a gf splinter; 4m = slam interest opposite even an invitational, is one such possibility.

 

That way, 4♥ is a void splinter.

 

On this hand, we are on the cusp, in my preferred style, between a heavy 3♠ and a light splinter. I like my controls, so I opt for the splinter.

[Phil]

While a jump reverse is obviously a splinter, I would not consider it forcing to game. A sensible (standard?) way is to play 3♥ as either a value raise to 3♠ with heart shortness or a monster hand that is investigating slam either off of partner's signoff.

 

edit: MikeH cross posted with me. I agreed with him word for word, until I read "4♥ is a void splinter". 4♥ for me is the in-between hand that is simply a GF. I suppose you could layer all invitational / GF / GF+ hands into 3♥ so that 4♥ could be a void, but it sounds like a lot of work.

[ArtK78]

While a jump reverse is obviously a splinter, I would not consider it forcing to game. A sensible (standard?) way is to play 3♥ as either a value raise to 3♠ with heart shortness or a monster hand that is investigating slam either off of partner's signoff.

 

edit: MikeH cross posted with me. I agreed with him word for word, until I read "4♥ is a void splinter". 4♥ for me is the in-between hand that is simply a GF. I suppose you could layer all invitational / GF / GF+ hands into 3♥ so that 4♥ could be a void, but it sounds like a lot of work.

 

Phil: Your method is the same as mine - invitational splinter or a massive hand with heart shortness. My post on this is about 14 posts up.

[Phil]

Phil: Your method is the same as mine - invitational splinter or a massive hand with heart shortness. My post on this is about 14 posts up.

 

Yes, I see that in your edit on your original response. I was honestly looking at Zel's quote of yours.

[jmc]

I like Billy Miller's treatment in the February 2011 ACBL bulletin where the jump reverse shows a "splimit" bid. This is typically a 13,14 point hand that counts up to an invite with heart shortness. This allows our 1D-1S-3S bids to stay "pure" with the advertised high card strength, yet let partner evaluate game opposite the lower high card point hands that value up.

 

If you are an ACBL member and interested you can access the February Bulletin through your "Member Page".