double..take out or penalty..same old story

[acer55]

the bid goes...

1♣ - pass - 1♦ - 1♥

pass - 2♥ - double - pass

?

the opener s pass showes a 12-14 balanced hand with no 4 spades (with 4 spades i would bid 1sp after 1♥) so can be responder s double take out ?to what?to spades not so to what ?my opinion is that this dbl is only penalty .do u have other opinion ?let s hear :)

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Richard Pavlicek calls this DBL a Competitive Double .

 

" Certain doubles, while penalty in standard bidding, are best played as competitive meaning, 'I want to compete further but I am not sure what to bid.' " .

 

One of his examples looks much like yours:

 

1C - ( p ) - 1H - ( 1S )

p - ( 2S ) - DBL - ( p )

??

 

His suggestion after a Competitive DBL:

 

"Partner of the competitive doubler should choose the contract from the alternatives suggested by the previous bidding. Any nonjump bid (even a new suit) is nonforcing; jumps below game are invitational. Passing the double is a real possibility, requiring a suitable defensive hand with 4 trumps, or 3 trumps at the 3 level."

[RunemPard]

To me it shows at least 5 diamonds, and mild support to clubs...I don't see it as being a stop ask, but you could be looking at a game value hand. 1H can possibly be 7+ HCP, with a 2H response showing 6+ or really nice hearts. If we go off of minimum values, we are holding 24+ HCP. If you have spade stops, and not sure about agreement, I would show 2S I guess.

 

But to me, pass is out of the question unless you know it is going down.

[acer55]

Richard Pavlicek calls this DBL a Competitive Double .

 

" Certain doubles, while penalty in standard bidding, are best played as competitive meaning, 'I want to compete further but I am not sure what to bid.' " .

 

One of his examples looks much like yours:

 

1C - ( p ) - 1H - ( 1S )

p - ( 2S ) - DBL - ( p )

??

 

His suggestion after a Competitive DBL:

 

"Partner of the competitive doubler should choose the contract from the alternatives suggested by the previous bidding. Any nonjump bid (even a new suit) is nonforcing; jumps below game are invitational. Passing the double is a real possibility, requiring a suitable defensive hand with 4 trumps, or 3 trumps at the 3 level."

[acer55]

my pass was a disaster ,,it seams that pavlicek knows something ,,tx tx for the answer (of course i would like to hear i was right with my pass :) )

[acer55]

To me it shows at least 5 diamonds, and mild support to clubs...I don't see it as being a stop ask, but you could be looking at a game value hand. 1H can possibly be 7+ HCP, with a 2H response showing 6+ or really nice hearts. If we go off of minimum values, we are holding 24+ HCP. If you have spade stops, and not sure about agreement, I would show 2S I guess.

 

But to me, pass is out of the question unless you know it is going down.

[acer55]

tx for your answer..of course my pass wasn t so good..(mild words to describe it)congratulation for the winning song at eurovision,,great song.

[gwnn]

I personally preferred Anna Bergendahl and she didn't even make it to the final. Strange people, the voters.

 

Here your reasoning is superficially pleasing, i.e. opener did indeed give a reasonably accurate description but I think responder will find it much more useful to be able to double with a hand that wants to compete. Opener's minor suits could be 2-5 to 4-4 so responder cannot really compete accurately. It is a nice addition that opener can also pass the x if he has some heart length (so just using 2NT for the minors is a bit problematic).