close decision?

[billw55]

IMP pairs, white on red:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=st9h93dkq873c8753&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=p1cdp1d2c2hp]200|400[/hv]

 

and the best call is ... ?

[kayin801]

3♣ or 3♥. Dislike both. 3♣ doesn't really give partner anything useful to go on, and 3♥ doesn't express our heart support properly, though at least we have a ruffing value and a potentially useful long suit. I would never pass, partner could have xxx, AKQxxx, Axx, x and game is pretty good and that's not good enough for Xing and then bidding.

 

(edit: if not clear, I agree with phil's below interpretation of 3♣ being decent hand in context with no clear direction. I would be more likely to bid that the more familiar I am with my partner)

[BillPatch]

3♥ is automatic.

[Phil]

Good problem and I think it is a close call.

 

We owe partner a bid, so pass is out. However, nothing fits.

 

The choice are 3♦ and 3♥. 3♦ is right on values, tells partner 'where we live' and doesn't preclude other strains. I should have three card support for partner but I do have a ruffing value.

 

I slightly prefer 3♦. We can still find hearts if partner can rebid them, and 3♦ might get us to a good 3N.

 

There is one other possible choice - 3♣. If this is defined as doubt about strain, but some values, its perfect, but I am concerned partner might take it as a good hand for hearts, or some other max 1♦ call.

[quiddity]

I don't see why pass is out; partner's bid is not forcing and we don't have a fit.

[aguahombre]

3H is neither automatic, nor an option, if all the hands with 6H would have done something different on the first two rounds.

 

3C would just be a noise, IMO. No 6th diamond, no 3 hearts, a bit of strength more than pass. 3C seems a close choice over 3D.

[quiddity]

Also, I don't see how 3♦ is "right on values". What would you bid with a weak hand and long diamonds?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Good problem and I think it is a close call.

 

We owe partner a bid, so pass is out. However, nothing fits.

 

The choice are 3♦ and 3♥.

Is this a situation for good/bad 2NT! ?? ( to give you a 2nd way to bid either 3D or 3H ) .

[billw55]

Well at least it isn't something obvious that I was missing.

 

A related question: how much weaker would the hand need to be to consider pass? I thought it was close to this on the grounds that partner could double then cuebid clubs to show a true moose. Hence his actual sequence is limited to .. I'm not quite sure what.

[sailoranch]

Pass for me. Will partner get to ruff a spade?

[Yu18772]

Probably I dont understand something here, but I pass. 2♥ is not 100% forcing - it shows a decent 16-17-19 HCP with 5+ hearts, which means we dont have game.....

If partner has a stronger hand he should X again or bid 3♣ or bid 3♥ - all would be 100% forcing.

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gifYu

[aguahombre]

Probably I dont understand something here, but I pass. 2♥ is not 100% forcing - it shows a decent 16-17-19 HCP with 5+ hearts, which means we dont have game.....

If partner has a stronger hand he should X again or bid 3♣ or bid 3♥ - all would be 100% forcing.

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gifYu

Some of us have different threshholds for our overcalls, and thus different considerations.

 

For us, partner cannot have more than 5 hearts and the floor for her double, followed by 2H is 18+ because of inferences from this particular auction. Advancer, who bid 1D had a zero to 8 range; and the given hand is pretty good within that...with a KQXXX for trick source.

 

It is extremely likely we have a diamond fit of 8 or nine cards. Passing 2H could work if the 5-2 heart fit plays for about the same as diamonds and partner is minimum. But, Clubs led and led some more might prove quite ugly in hearts while game might be afoot in notrump or diamonds. (AJX AKJXX AXX KX has very good chance to make a NT game, and a fair chance to make 2H.

[SteveMoe]

I like tight ranges for doubler's rebids. 2♥ here is 17+ to 19-. 3♥ rebid would be 19+-21. 22+ cuebids first. A 2nd Double instead of 2♥ promises only a 14+ perfect shape takeout, and is not forcing. With 17-19 and 6 ♥-cards 331, I would almost always overcall hearts and not double, expecting to make a subsequent takeout double of the suit that is my singleton. I would not do that with ♠.

 

I will take my chances by passing 2H. I think an 8-trick contract with 7 trumps is simpler than a 9-trick contract with 8 trumps (♦).

 

If partner is as good as AJX AKJXX AXX KX I would expect to hear either a 2N or 3♥ rebid (I tend toward ♥ because of primes).

[Codo]

Partner showed me something in the area of 18-19 with 5+ hearts.

Game is quite close, but otoh I have no easy bid. I would try 2 NT if this is good bad and 3 ♥ if not. But pass could easily be the winning call and was my first thought.

[lowerline]

Well at least it isn't something obvious that I was missing.

 

A related question: how much weaker would the hand need to be to consider pass? I thought it was close to this on the grounds that partner could double then cuebid clubs to show a true moose. Hence his actual sequence is limited to .. I'm not quite sure what.

 

At MPs I would pass with that hand. So yes, it is close.

I think that 2♥ is limited to 20hcp and that it denies a 6crd suit when at the top of that range.

 

My choice is 3♦. If partner has only a 5crd heart suit, we might end up in 3nt or 4♥ without a fit and possibly only 22hcp in line. That is the price you pay for not missing game at imps.

 

Steven

[phil_20686]

I think its close, but would bid 3H. The xxxx clubs is a good sign imo. Decent chance partner has Ax(x) diamonds in which case my hand is pretty good. Axxx AKQxx Axx x would be perfectly normal here and now 4H and 5D are good spots.

[gszes]

p heard our 1d bid and opted for 2h IMO

our hand is quite average for a 1d bid

and our p does not expect game unless we

have something surprising for our 1d

response---welllll we dont have it.

 

No heart fit a doubleton spade and 2 hearts

just means more probable misfit. If p thought

we might do better they could have x again

or bid 3c but they chose a mere 2h bid because

they expect little chance at game if any.

 

 

pass

[MrAce]

Also, I don't see how 3♦ is "right on values". What would you bid with a weak hand and long diamonds?

 

 

FYI, it is not std, but most experts that i know in USA, play a double jump of suit over pd's T.O dbl as 6 card and a weak hand.

 

To answer your question, if you had 1 or 2 more diamonds and a weak hand ( like this or weaker if this is too strong for you) you would start 3♦, not 1. As i said i dont think it is std. In my country double jump of a suit as a response to a T.O dbl shows 5 of that suit and invitational while normal jump shows 4 of them and invitational. I like the USA style much better though.

 

I would have bid 3♦ with current hand.