What is going on?

[Coelacanth]

ACBL Regional Open Pairs, mixed field but sound opposition at your table, if that matters

 

You are dealer, all vul

 

[hv=pc=n&n=saq2h3dqj6542cqj4&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1dp1hp2dp2sp3sp4cp4dp4np]133|200[/hv]

 

1. Do you agree with your auction so far? If not, what would you have done differently?

1a. I'm particularly interested in alternative calls after partner bid 4♣. What other calls are possible here?

 

2. What does partner have? Approximate shape and values

 

3. What is 4NT? (You are in an occasional partnership and thus without detailed slam bidding agreements beyond "normal RKCB")

 

4. What call do you make?

[jillybean]

1. I would bid 2N/2♠, not 3♠ but 3♠ with AQ2 and ♥x is ok, I guess.

1a. After 4♣ what is 4♦? I don't have a cue and would have bid 4♠

 

2. Partner is 45xx, game forcing values.

 

3. 4N is keycard for spades.

 

4. I answer 1 keycard.

[Phil]

1. 3♠ is a nice call. What is 4♦?? It tells me you didn't understand 4♣ (which shows a hand too strong to bid 4M).

 

2. I think partner is 5-6-1-1.

 

3. Partner is keycarding for spades.

 

4. If 'normal' RKC means 0314, then I bid 5♦. There are many that learned bridge in the last 10 years and they have not been taught anything but 1430, so this is 'normal' RKC for them.

[the_clown]

1. I would have bid 2N over 2♠. I have a terrible hand, singleton in my partner's suit, dont see any need to encourage partner to bid on. Of course over 3♣, I would show my 3 card support then.

 

2.4522, game forcing

 

3.RKCB

 

4. I would answer 1KC

[aguahombre]

1. 3♠ is a nice call. What is 4♦?? It tells me you didn't understand 4♣ (which shows a hand too strong to bid 4M).

 

2. I think partner is 5-6-1-1.

 

3. Partner is keycarding for spades.

 

4. If 'normal' RKC means 0314, then I bid 5♦. There are many that learned bridge in the last 10 years and they have not been taught anything but 1430, so this is 'normal' RKC for them.

1: Yes.

2: 4C as opposed to direct RKC 4NT with That distribution seems questionable.

3: Yes, she is keycarding for spades; but could not do it until I misbid 4D (see two above).

 

Conclusion: we have two diamond losers.

[jillybean]

Why do people think partner is 5-6-1-1 ? He could be but we didn't give him a chance to show it.

[kenrexford]

This is a curious sequence. If partner has 6H/4S, and if we might bid 3S with the same hand but two small hearts and two clubs, then he might want 4C as a punt bid. If he has 5S/6H, he might want a bid that invites slam. If he has 5H/4S/3-4D, he might want a call to now refocus diamonds.

 

In theory, 4D should be a natural re-focus, and thus 4C a two-way call. In that event, 4D should probably be almost a puppet/relay asking for the unwind, with partner bidding 4H with the punt hand but 4S with the 5-6 invite hand.

 

Assuming that, the problem for partner is the punt hand with extras. That might argue for 4NT being a "heavy/quantitative punt.".

 

I am really uncomfortable with my take, but i suppose i would pass the punt invite as my guess.

[CSGibson]

My take:

 

3♠ is a really bad bid. You've taken up a whole level of bidding room, and not described your hand very well. A 3♠ bid should be relatively pure, something like AQx x KQJxxx xxx, because partner is going to pass 3N on too many hands without club stops. You should bid 2N, and let partner pattern out - if he does so with 3♠, then I'll bid 4♠, if he does so below 3♠, then I'll bid 3♠ now.

 

4♣ should be a cue bid in support of spades. 4♦ is another awful bid - it sounds like you are cooperating in a slam try, and you have a hand that is just about as bad as it could be for the prior auction - no source of tricks, no quicks in the minors, no supporting heart cards. Over 4♣, just bid 4♠.

 

At this point, 4N should be keycard for spades. I answer, and get my apologies ready for screwing up the previous two rounds of bidding when we go down at the 5/6 level.

[inquiry]

I am with Chris on this one. Over 2♠, I would bid 2NT. My subsequent plan for is to rebidding 3♠ next over any lower bid at the three level, and raising 3♠ by partner to 4♠, and passing 3NT.

 

If partner is 5-6-any, we will comfortably find our spade fit.

If partner is 4-6, when I bid 3♠ over 3♥, he will know I have a club stopper and spade support.

 

On your auction, sorry, over 4♣ my hand is done. I will rebid 4♠. You have backed yourself into a corner, i think 4♦ is cooperating, when you really should be slowing the auction down.

 

As to what is 4NT? This must be rkc for spades. If partner is 4-5-1-3 and wanted to play in notrump, he missed the boat when he didn't bid 3NT over 3♠ or some level of notrump over 2♦.

[Coelacanth]

Well, thank you for the replies everyone.

 

1. 3♠ was described as everything from "a nice call" to "a really bad bid". I think the truth is somewhere in between. At the table, I rejected 2NT because I didn't want partner to bid 3NT with 4513. Partner already knew I didn't have 4 spades, so I thought 3♠ was very descriptive in case the 4-3 fit was the best spot. I agree, however, that what I really wanted was to slow down the auction, and 2NT is the way to do that.

 

As for 4♦, Phil mostly has it right when he said it shows that I didn't understand 4♣. I was basically trying to say "I have nothing extra to cue" while keeping the bidding below 4♥ in case that was the best spot opposite some 4612 hand.

 

2. There was no consensus on partner's shape; some think 45 in the majors, others think 56. At the time I thought the most likely shape was 46. As it turns out none of these was correct. What about partner's strength? 2♠ was clearly game forcing, but does it show extra values beyond that? Certainly 4♣ shows extras, but I didn't know that at the time I bid 3♠.

 

3. Most people think 4NT was RKC for spades. If so, what was the point of 4♣? I thought 4NT was to play, giving up after I failed to show encouragement after the 4♣ slam try.

 

4. Thus, I passed 4NT. Partner made 5, for an avg-plus.

[aguahombre]

4NT should have been RKB for spades, but if I sat in for the player who had made the previous bids with the opener's cards, I would have passed it also because we will have two losing diamonds if partner's auction is to be believed.

[SteveMoe]

After 1m-1M-2m responder needs a GF bid to enable slam exploration at low levels. To do this, the bid of the 3rd suit is forcing but does not guarantee as many as 4 cards. Imagine: ♠KJ10 ♥AKJxxx ♦Axx, ♣x. Responder's 2nd bids are invitational (3♦, 3♥), forcing(4♦) or to play(4♥ or 5♦). 2♠or 3♣ should be "3rd suit forcing" - these might be natural 4+ card suits but do not have to be. Therefore you would bid 2N with no ♥ tolerance and fewer than 4♠s. Partner will rebid 3♦ or 3♥ as game forces. (3♣ by partner should show 4=5=1=3 or 4=5=0=4 and be GF).

 

Assuming partner rebids 3♥ as in the example hand above, your next bid will be 3N. Partner will know you have 0-1 ♥s and soft values. Partner might still continue with outside controls yet unbid. Notice that your ♠ values are duplicated and not pulling full weight. Partner can now bid 4♦ to show 3-card support and slam interest. With 3-card support and only game interest partner would bid 4♦ instead of 3♠ (yes this foregoes 3N).

[Coelacanth]

After 1m-1M-2m responder needs a GF bid to enable slam exploration at low levels. To do this, the bid of the 3rd suit is forcing but does not guarantee as many as 4 cards.

 

Congratulations, you're the first person to figure out what my partner was doing.

 

I'm still not sure how the auction would have gone had I realized this (and bid 2NT), but at least I would have a chance to get it right.

[han]

I think that 3S was a really bad bid, the truth is not somewhere in between, I would bid that with a hand like AQx x AQJxxx xxx. Perhaps partner has something like Kxx AQJxx Kx xxx, is he supposed to bid 3NT now? 3S should not only show 3 spades, it should also deny a stopper in the fourth suit: clubs. With this hand we should rebid 2NT. If partner has 5 spades and 6 hearts, then after 2NT she has plenty of room to rebid 3S, after which we can bid 4C to show a good hand for spades.

 

When no fit has been established, a bid in a new suit at the 4-level is usually played as a slam try in the last bid suit. Here, partner could have shown slam interest in diamonds by bidding 4D. Unfortunately thanks to our 3S bid there is no room left for partner to show a slam try in hearts, so we have to keep in mind that that is what partner still might have has.

 

But let me keep it simple by assuming that partner has a slam try in spades. It is now our job to sign off with a bad hand, or make a cue with a good hand for slam. I think that we have a really bad hand. Both of our queen-jacks are probably wasted, and we have already shown our good 3-card spade support. I would bid 4S.

[Coelacanth]

But let me keep it simple by assuming that partner has a slam try in spades.

OK, everyone has convinced me that 3♠ was bad and I should have bid 2NT.

 

However, everyone has also made the quoted assumption, which turned out to be wrong.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sk6hak9754dk873ca&n=saq2h3dqj6542cqj4]133|200[/hv]

 

The goal on the hand is to get to 6♦, which is cold. 2 of 9 pairs got there.

 

I passed 4NT because it honestly did not occur to me that partner, having bid hearts, then spades, then clubs, then NT, was keycarding in diamonds.

 

Can anyone suggest a good sequence to 6♦ using a fairly vanilla Standard American approach?

[aguahombre]

With the given hand, partner would like to avoid all the torture and keycard for diamonds directly over 2D. Kickback is apparently not available because of the 1H response.

 

Would have been luckier if the pair had Minorwood in their bag.

[Phil]

Its very important to set trump in these auctions. Your partner's 4♣ did nothing to advance this cause, and created a lot of doubt and confusion about strain.

 

While it is true that a 2N call by you would have allowed partner to support diamonds, he should have done so anyway over 3♠.

 

4♦ over 2♦ is OK too (no matter what its meaning), but if I had to choose one call over 2♦, it would be 6♦.

[CSGibson]

If your partner was interested in a diamond slam, he should splinter 4C over 2D, make a strong jump shift of 2H over 1D (if available), or just keycard over 2D, since all he's interested in is keycards.

[SteveMoe]

Priority for South is first to determine if North has ♥ support. Therefore I prefer the following sequence:

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1dp1hp2dp2sp2np4dp4sp4np5dp6d]133|100|0314 RKB[/hv]

This is slightly better than the splinter IMO because it caters to a possible 1=3=6=3 shape in North.

BTW 4♦ in this sequence invites Q-bidding. 4♠ shows 1st round control.

[SteveMoe]

Trying to link to a similar page in a different string that has web references you might find useful: Boxed Myself in Here

[Zelandakh]

At IMPs I think it is ok to set diamonds since this rates to be safer than hearts even if partner has a couple

1♦ - 1♥

2♦ - 4♦ = slam try or better

4♥ = bad hand for slam

... - 4♠ = RKCB

4NT = 1 or 4

... - 5♣ = ♦Q?

6♦ = yes, but nothing extra (I think 6♣ should show ♥Q rather than the black queens)

 

At MPs it is harder since we cannot afford to be in 6♦ with 6♥ making if the field is good enough to be in it. Now I think we have to add either "2♠ - 2NT" or "3♣ - 3NT" between Opener's 2♦ rebid and Responder's 4♦. Which one depends on whether we have any agreements about it. So either

 

1♦ - 1♥

2♦ - 2♠

2NT - 4♦

4♥ - 4♠

4NT - 5♣

6♦

 

or

 

1♦ - 1♥

2♦ - 3♣

3NT - 4♦

4♥ - 4♠

4NT - 5♣

6♦

 

In the OP auction, regardless of other choices you could have made, partner's 4♣ bid was easily the worst. I am wondering if partner might have meant it as Gerber since it is difficult to see what else they were thinking!