Fluffy Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 ♠KQJx♥AKJxx♦-♣K9xx 1♥-(pass)-1♠-(1NT*)4♦-(5♦)-6♥-(pass) 1NT= both minors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 No. I pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yu18772 Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 Passhttp://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gifYu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 pass- 6 clubs or 5 NT had invited me stronger... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 More than one general principle involved: 1) If you feel the splinter was inadequate, don't splinter.2) You put partner in charge; he chose.3) Partner didn't invite you to bid more; don't bid more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunemPard Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 You cannot ignore partner not showing the ♣A...If he decided that he did not need to after your 4D jump, I give you permission to smack him with a fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted May 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 you cannot ignore either that partner cannot playin hearts if he doesn't bid them now. But that's not the point anyway, the question is not about trusting partner or whatever, its about how often do you think you will make grand. This time you didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 you cannot ignore either that partner cannot playin hearts if he doesn't bid them now. If he is trying to bale out of a spade contract, he will be asking himself why He bid spades in the first place. The next time, he won't do that and will be able to properly cue his controls rather than worry about the monster he created by bidding a non suit on the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Its imo impossible for partner to have only 1 keycard and bid 6. WTP 7H since in 7S i might get a H ruffed at trick 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Its imo impossible for partner to have only 1 keycard and bid 6. WTP 7H since in 7S i might get a H ruffed at trick 1.In 7S, the hand which has shown the minors will be on lead. Isn't he the one more likely to have a void than the other guy? However, bidding 7 of anything presupposes that responder actually has the first round club control and didn't show it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 In 7S, the hand which has shown the minors will be on lead. Isn't he the one more likely to have a void than the other guy? However, bidding 7 of anything presupposes that responder actually has the first round club control and didn't show it. Good point, however show me a hand where partner bid 6 with only 1 black ace ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Good point, however show me a hand where partner bid 6 with only 1 black ace ?AXXXX QXXXX XX X. We already know we don't like starting with a 1s response when we have heart support, but maybe this guy does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 AXXXX QXXXX XX X. We already know we don't like starting with a 1s response when we have heart support, but maybe this guy does. Even this hand partner might bid only 5S or more likely just make a splinter rather than bidding spades. Passing 6 because youre afraid to go down in 7 in case partner misbid is just terrible bridge. I dont see how 7S isnt at least a 95% contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Passing 6 because youre afraid to go down in 7 in case partner misbid is just terrible bridge. I dont see how 7S isnt at least a 95% contract.And going to 7 in case partner misbid doesn't work well for us, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted May 24, 2012 Report Share Posted May 24, 2012 Partner has spoken. One of my favorite lines from a bidding contest (Allan Graves), I don't mind a poor result to maintain partnership integrity. If you bid the grand and go down you are on your way to the partnership desk. If you make it you are just on borrowed time. You are off the A♣ period or your pard is standing the first round(s). A classic win-win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoshy Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Let's rule out the possibility of partner having equal length in the majors. That just seems silly when it is easy for partner to make an accurate raise on the first round. The normal hand types for spades-then-hearts with genuine heart support are a bad hand, a limit raise (or close enough), and a GF hand. We should ignore the hands with 5♠ and 3♥ since partner would prefer to play spades. That leaves 5♠ and 4♥ versus 4♠ and 3♥. Even for 5♠4♥, I still don't know why partner wants to play in hearts, isn't he happy to ruff a diamond while pitching a club on the long heart? Besides which, he could have cuebid to make our life much easier. I'll play partner for 4♠3♥, which is even more likely given that partner has a poor ♠ suit. I probably want to know Fluffy and partner's initial response with 4-3 and a GF, but I don't care that much since grand is going to have handling issues in the 44, especially if bad breaks are lurking. Oops, I missed the main part of the problem: play 6♥ or 6♠? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 oops, I missed the main part of the problem: play 6♥ or 6♠?To borrow from ggwhiz: "Partner has spoken". That applies to strain as well as to level, and would have saved you the effort you put into the analysis which preceeded that question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoshy Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Don't worry, there wasn't much effort. I don't normally play partner for something he can't hold ;) Anyway, this isn't the auction for mantras. We could hold Qxxx, AKJxxx or KQJx, Axxxx. We have something in between, so let's try using our judgement. 6♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dboxley Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 More than one general principle involved: 1) If you feel the splinter was inadequate, don't splinter.2) You put partner in charge; he chose.3) Partner didn't invite you to bid more; don't bid more. ditto, ditto, ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Maybe im not on the same planet but sfter opener showed a void (its in their suit so 3D is a splinter and 4D is a void) there are 8 working cards. AKQ of SAKQ of HAK of clubs on a bad day the Q of club might be of value but its far from being the same values as the other cards. Both M queen dont have full values since we are very likely in a 9 card fit but since the suit wont break that well they have values. IMO a 4D slam show at least 4 of these 8 cards.AQxxAKxxxx--xxx AxxxAQxxx--Axxx etc To think that responder is going to bid 6 holding only 2 of those like the Q of H and only one black ace is just crazy, Also note that with a stiff club he would have splinter at round 1 and with 2 quick losers in a suit that is going to be led near 100% of the times he wont bid slam, so its nearly impossible he doesnt have the A of clubs. Note that partner cannot bid slam with a hand like JxxxxQxxxAQAQ Because youre going to lose 2 tricks too often the K of clubs is likely to be with the 1NT hand and the majors honnors are likely to be with the 5D hands. Note that its slightly possible to have a hand too strong to make a splinter in clubs like JxxxxQxxxAQJA But this particular hand is way less likely that a normal AJxxx,Qxxx,xx,Ax wich is a normal 6H bid. I jsut want to make sure that you understand that its crazy to make a 6C bid (try for 7) with only 3/8 working cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted May 26, 2012 Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 I jsut want to make sure that you understand that its crazy to make a 6C bid (try for 7) with only 3/8 working cards. With both black Aces (needed for the grand) it's mandatory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Pass It's just possible that partner has something like ♦ xxxx and knows that you are void. Additionally, having a stiff ♣ and great cards in the majors, partner might well bid 6 ♥ knowing it's got a very good chance of making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 He knows that we are void because we told him we are void?!?It seems Implausible to me that partner would raise to 6 with one black ace when he had pass and pull available to make a slam try ( this is a fp auction for me). Also on the constructions where partner has xxx x in the minors it's near certain that 7d is cheap against game. Not sure I would be brave enough to do it the table though. Also do not understand this partnership harmony. I assume that partner will think I am trying to get the best possible score, so why will he be upset if it doesn't work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Maybe im not on the same planet but sfter opener showed a void (its in their suit so 3D is a splinter and 4D is a void) there are 8 working cards. I disagree with you that 4♦ showed a void. You are making assumptions about the differences between 3 and 4 ♦ bids. I think pd can have a lot of hands with 2 aces and one of them being ♦ ace. But lets accept that pd knew we are void in ♦ for the sake of argument. And he also holds both remaining Aces and bids 6♥ only ? And lets accept this too (just to please you) are you really making grand ? Dont you have any concerns about ♥ suit when RHO bid minors ? Or do you believe pd not only has to hold both remaining aces but also heart Q ? AxxxxTxxxJxxA FYI, i personally play 3♦ over 1NT for big hands and long hearts ( forcing in my suit - self splinter ) Some people play it ♠ fit and splinter but a light splinter etc etc. What you wrote about 4♦ showing void is not what you think it is for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 It doesnt seem to me that opener has shown a monster hand here. This is a "potentially contested auction" where partner should try to make the bid that will leave us well positioned over 5d when he has a void diamond and forsees the likely outcome. KJxx AKxxxx - Qxx is already plenty for 4d imo. Partner leaping to 6H with the trump ace and no club control is impossible. The danger is that he has a club singleton. Axxxxx Qx xxxx x for example, should probably leap to slam. If this is partners hand 7S is could be good sac against 6 diamonds!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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