ATB

[dboxley]

[hv=pc=n&s=sak92hajt65dcakt2&n=sthq8dkj93cqj9753&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=p1hp1np2sp2np3cp5cppp]266|200[/hv]

[Finch]

What did North's 2NT bid mean?

A simple auction seems to be

 

1H - 1NT

2S - 3C (constructive)

4D - 4NT (discouraging)

6C

 

It's harder to get to 7, but I can't decide how much I want to be in 7 on the obvious trump lead

[aguahombre]

Cannot blame North for rebidding 2NT, if intended as Leben with that collection of cards which are not in hearts or spades.

 

South gets it, since 6C over 5C would seem automatic. South has not even shown 4 cards in clubs and got a leap raise. North must have a lot of clubs, which is really all we need.

[masse24]

Does 1NT deny four ♠'s?

 

I would prefer a 3♣ rebid (GF) by South rather than 2♠. But, I suppose if you have a special meaning for 2♠ in this auction it can work.

 

So:

 

1♥ - 1NT

3♣ - 4♣*

[insert favorite RKC gadget here]

...to 6♣

 

* = Agrees ♣'s shows slam interest.

:huh:

[mikeh]

I agree with masse in terms of opener's rebid....there is no point looking for a spade fit, and everything to gain by focusing on clubs immediately.....for one thing, the auction to 3♣ (assuming 2N to be natural) could easily be a big 4=5=1=3 rather than 4=5=0=4 monster.

 

Having said that, the 3♣ jumpshift is played by many as somewhat ambiguous....if opener has a gf and doubt about strain, he is likely to stall via a short(ish) 3♣, and indeed some play 3♣ as conventional (as do I). However if conventional, responder bids an artificial 3♦ and opener patterns out with 3♠, confirming real clubs, and off we go.

 

If not conventional, then responder has to choose between a mark-time 3♥ and a forward going club raise.....with the 6th trump, the stiff spade and that nice heart Q, I would choose whichever was the stronger raise in my methods.....4♣ or 5♣.

 

On the auction as it went, I think NS should have reached slam anyway.....S is clearly at least a trick stronger than he has so far shown and partner contracted for an 11 trick game, so the 12th trick is probably there.

[dkham]

In the given auction, can North bid 4♣ instead of 5♣? Assuming it's forcing (maybe it's not). He's got a maximum for clubs.

[gszes]

good start but I admit I dont understand the bidding

1h 1n

2s 3n

4c 4s(cue)4n would have been sign off

6c too hard to imagine 7c

[aguahombre]

Gszes: Most people I know believe the leap to 3NT by North after the reverse shows 11-13. Your auction would work this time, but I don't think I would try it.

[dave_w]

If 2NT is lebensohl then is 3C even Natural? Why wouldn't you bid 3C with a 4522 or even a 4531!?

[MrAce]

Cannot blame North for rebidding 2NT, if intended as Leben with that collection of cards which are not in hearts or spades.

 

 

 

2 NT was obviously not leben. Otherwise responder would not jump to 5♣ vs a possible stiff or doubleton ♣ of opener.

 

I agree that opener should bid more regardless of what 2 NT meant, he knows responder has too many ♣ as you said.

[dave_w]

In the given auction, can North bid 4♣ instead of 5♣? Assuming it's forcing (maybe it's not). He's got a maximum for clubs.

This depends on agreements still. Even if 4♣ is forcing do they play slow/fast arrival or picture style bidding.

 

In picture bidding:

direct 5♣: good trumps

4♣ then 5♣ over a cue bid: worst possible hand

4♣ then cue bid over cue bid: decent hand, outside control (just shown) but not good trumps

4♣ then slam force over cue bid: decent hand, outside control and good trumps.

 

In slow/fast arrival:

direct 5♣: worst hand

4♣ then 5♣ over a cue bid: good trumps? maybe?

4♣ then cue bid over cue bid: decent hand outside control, but not good trumps?

4♣ then slam force over cue bid: as above.

 

I guess it's all the same, but I prefer the picture bidding style. I'm not even sure why.

[dake50]

Agree FrancesHinden (spelled right, this time? I repent).

***North 3C (useful clubs) not 2NT, esp if immediate

weak jump 3C was available instead of 1NT-F1.

***South has a D-void above his reversing values.

In 7C, HK must fall quick or dummy reverse:

D-ruffs South must let C-QJ pull trumps

(even maybe DA falls).

I want to try 7C as a play problem

- not because it is a odds on contract.

[mcphee]

I think N was a bit shy leaping to 5C. While I like the idea of 2NT being a lebensohl relay it is hardly a standard treatment, after all 2S is a GF. Basically it seems to me the N player must have felt that a simple raise in C either was not forcing or jumping showed extra length. In any case I like the 2N rebid as it allows the strong hand to show more, it's not like I am concerned about missing a game.

[dboxley]

Does 1NT deny four ♠'s?

 

I would prefer a 3♣ rebid (GF) by South rather than 2♠. But, I suppose if you have a special meaning for 2♠ in this auction it can work.

 

So:

 

1♥ - 1NT

3♣ - 4♣*

[insert favorite RKC gadget here]

...to 6♣

 

* = Agrees ♣'s shows slam interest.

:huh:

 

 

Yes, 1NT denies 4 spades but is that any reason to refuse to describe your hand? The auction thru 3C described opener's hand perfectly (alghough he might have had 4513). Ii never entered my mind that anyone would object to the auction up to that point. (I should have known better :)) We were not playing Lebensohl in that situation so 2NT seemed pretty normal, 3C may have veered the auction away from 3NT and at that point the most likely contracts seemed to be 3NT or 4H. 2NT gave opener a chance to round out his hand which he did. It was at the point where responder was to bid over 3C that the auction became interesting and it was at that point that I wanted the discussion to begin. I should have clarified what I wanted, sorry.

[aguahombre]

2NT gave opener a chance to round out his hand which he did. It was at the point where responder was to bid over 3C that the auction became interesting and it was at that point that I wanted the discussion to begin. I should have clarified what I wanted, sorry.

O.K. From back in the middle of last Century..and still a good idea today....:

 

A jump raise of opener's third suit in this type of auction shows a whole lot of cards in that suit (since the suit might only be a 3-bagger in your "pattern" auction and within the agreements you describe). It was a descriptive bid, showing nothing worth mentioning anywhere else. The diamond King is known by North to not be relevant, because North is not going to hand-hog notrump.

 

South needs no other information than the lack of heart fit, lack of spade fit, and extra club length for 6♣ to be a favorite.