Tomaz_B Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Most of the tables generally requre permission to join. If the table is open then some players tend to leave in the middle of the game. That is truly annoying.If a player needs permission to join the table, then he is usually more serious. That is probably why most tables are locked. I think that leaving table in the middle of the game (frequently after bad bid or play) is very rude in most cases. Maybe the software could be changed so that a player cannot leave in the middle of the game. Or maybe BBO software could send a message to such player everytime that happens to let him know that he is (probably) not doing it right. Best solution might be to watch such players (count how many times they left) and after warning deny access to the club. Something should be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Hi. It is violation of the rules of the BBO to leave a hand once you made a bid, until the hand is over. Exceptions can be made for dummy, who can leave after the auction is over. This is clearly stated in the rules. I get reports everyday of people leaving during play. We issue "warnings" to the offenders when this happen, and keep, admittedly, incomplete records on this. But people who make a chronic habit of this risk getteing suspended from the site or total banishment (if repeat offender after an initial ban). We all have to be tolerant of real emergencies of course, or a bad connection, or an ISP going down. But these should be few and far between for any one player. Simply report the bad actors to any yellow when this occurs. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack_hh Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 If a player leaves midhand, he should not be ableto join another table for a certain amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 If a player leaves midhand, he should not be ableto join another table for a certain amount of time. I like this suggestion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 If a player leaves midhand, he should not be ableto join another table for a certain amount of time. I like this suggestion... It is not that easy. Some people leave tables because the host boots them. Some people leave a table because their oppoenents (or partner) is incredibly rude, crude, or otherwise socially unacceptable. Some people are "filling in" while waiting for someone to return or show up and are asked to leave so the "correct player" can take the seat. This might happen duing the bidding or very early in a hand (say before the first trick is played). Some people jump out of a table to go register for a tournement (software can't see motive) telling the table to reserve seat for them. Of course, if some one has to leave in the middle of a hand because of an emergency, then a can't join another table for x=minutes is not harsh. I would think that the automatic tournament ban for leaving tournaments too soon, would be a better way to go. That is, you can abandon the occassional tournement without any "official" automatic sanction. But do it too often in too short a period of time, you are blocked for seven days from all such events. Maybe a similiar calculus can be done on table hoppers. Leave a table during play say than X times in some unit time (say a week). The real question is, how much overhead this adds to the system, and would any performance hits the system takes be worth the minimal benefit? Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 If a player leaves midhand, he should not be ableto join another table for a certain amount of time. I like this suggestion... It is not that easy. Some people leave tables because the host boots them. Some people leave a table because their oppoenents (or partner) is incredibly rude, crude, or otherwise socially unacceptable. Some people are "filling in" while waiting for someone to return or show up and are asked to leave so the "correct player" can take the seat. This might happen duing the bidding or very early in a hand (say before the first trick is played). Some people jump out of a table to go register for a tournement (software can't see motive) telling the table to reserve seat for them. Of course, if some one has to leave in the middle of a hand because of an emergency, then a can't join another table for x=minutes is not harsh. I would think that the automatic tournament ban for leaving tournaments too soon, would be a better way to go. That is, you can abandon the occassional tournement without any "official" automatic sanction. But do it too often in too short a period of time, you are blocked for seven days from all such events. Maybe a similiar calculus can be done on table hoppers. Leave a table during play say than X times in some unit time (say a week). The real question is, how much overhead this adds to the system, and would any performance hits the system takes be worth the minimal benefit? Ben From my perspective, VERY little justifies quitting a hand in the middle of play...There is even less reason to quit a hand in the middle of play and then immediate join another table, also, for whats its worth, its VERY easy to differentiate between a host booting a player or a player being called into a tournament and a voluntary exit. A previous thread suggested a feature set enhancement in which players could register for tournaments without the need to leave a table. Implement this feature at the same time and the benefits would seem to outweight the costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 From my perspective, VERY little justifies quitting a hand in the middle of play...There is even less reason to quit a hand in the middle of play and then immediate join another table, also, for whats its worth, its VERY easy to differentiate between a host booting a player or a player being called into a tournament and a voluntary exit. A previous thread suggested a feature set enhancement in which players could register for tournaments without the need to leave a table. Implement this feature at the same time and the benefits would seem to outweight the costs. Well, here is a first question, can you define "in the middle of play" Is making a pass, then before getting a chance to bid again, "in the middle of play". How about after playing the last card, but before everyone else has played to that trick? How about if the table host is redlighted and you have sat there for 15 minutes waiting for him to play his last card. How about if you joined a table for disconnected player, and before you can play a card, the disconnect player returns and everyone ask you to get up and let him back in? How about if you are dummy? How about if you have a jumpy mouse and you go to click the table button and accidently click the back button, and then try to rejoin the table immediately? You didn't even address the case where a player is being abused. You are going to issue time punishment for them for leaving an abusive environment. This is not a simple issue. But a lot of these issues go away, if a logical, you have to be a frequent (not even that frequent) table leaver for the software to issue soem sort of ban. I am not even sure how bad a "can't join a new table for x minutes" would be, if they could still kibitz. Anyway, I don't think this is as clear cut as you guys seem to think. Nor am I sure that this is worth a lot of uday's or fred's very valuable programming time to put in all the exceptions. It seems easy enough to have a "free" two (or some other number) such things in a seven day period, and then the thrid time, you get slammed. This way, emeregencies, host bans, accidential disconnects, etc are all taken care of (this things can happen).. .of course the dummy leaving issue will have to be worked out.. .Did you know if you leave the last hand of a tournmanent when you are dummy (you have no more bids or plays), that it is counted as leaving the tourney... if this is your policy, then if are dummy on the last hand too many times within a few days, and you will find yourself banned from playing for 7 days. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack_hh Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Some people leave tables because the host boots them.I was assuming the software can distinguishbetween leaving and getting booted. Some people jump out of a table to go register for a tournement (software can't see motive) telling the table to reserve seat for them.I see no need to leave the table during play -dummy can of course leave anytime. Maybe a player who has left a table might beable to return to the same table/seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack_hh Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 "middle of play" is AFTER your first bidand BEFORE you played your last card(or last card from dummy when being declarer). Dummy can leave at any time as this doesnot interrupt the game. "can't join a table for x minutes" includes kibitzing, of course :) "How about if you have a jumpy mouse and you go to click the table button and accidently click the back button, and then try to rejoin the table immediately?" As long as you did not confirm "are you sure ..." all is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 From my perspective, VERY little justifies quitting a hand in the middle of play...There is even less reason to quit a hand in the middle of play and then immediate join another table, also, for whats its worth, its VERY easy to differentiate between a host booting a player or a player being called into a tournament and a voluntary exit. A previous thread suggested a feature set enhancement in which players could register for tournaments without the need to leave a table. Implement this feature at the same time and the benefits would seem to outweight the costs. Well, here is a first question, can you define "in the middle of play" Is making a pass, then before getting a chance to bid again, "in the middle of play". How about after playing the last card, but before everyone else has played to that trick? How about if the table host is redlighted and you have sat there for 15 minutes waiting for him to play his last card. How about if you joined a table for disconnected player, and before you can play a card, the disconnect player returns and everyone ask you to get up and let him back in? How about if you are dummy? How about if you have a jumpy mouse and you go to click the table button and accidently click the back button, and then try to rejoin the table immediately? You didn't even address the case where a player is being abused. You are going to issue time punishment for them for leaving an abusive environment. This is not a simple issue. But a lot of these issues go away, if a logical, you have to be a frequent (not even that frequent) table leaver for the software to issue soem sort of ban. I am not even sure how bad a "can't join a new table for x minutes" would be, if they could still kibitz. Anyway, I don't think this is as clear cut as you guys seem to think. Nor am I sure that this is worth a lot of uday's or fred's very valuable programming time to put in all the exceptions. It seems easy enough to have a "free" two (or some other number) such things in a seven day period, and then the thrid time, you get slammed. This way, emeregencies, host bans, accidential disconnects, etc are all taken care of (this things can happen).. .of course the dummy leaving issue will have to be worked out.. .Did you know if you leave the last hand of a tournmanent when you are dummy (you have no more bids or plays), that it is counted as leaving the tourney... if this is your policy, then if are dummy on the last hand too many times within a few days, and you will find yourself banned from playing for 7 days. Ben Comment 1: If a player has taken an action, play has started. Comment 2: Most of the special cases that you discuss are quite easy to determine. And its easy to define a logicial course of action... For example, dummy's exiting the table don't disrupt play... The main exception is if a player is being running into some form of abuse. There are costs and benefits to virtually anything. I'm willing to accept that this will happen on occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerardo Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Then player should be able to call a yellow. Make it 10 mins for me, no big deal, and it defeats the pupose of leaving in the middle. Include missing tourney starts there, though. Dummy should be include too IMO, particularly if dummy's bidding puts declarer in an ugly contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 If a player has an emergency, than he will/can leave bbo.If a player just wants to subscribe to a tourney, he would want to reserve his seat. So i suggest a dialog like the shutdown dialog of windows.If you leave a table it should ask if you want to: 1) leave after this board2) leave bbo immediately3) leave for a moment, seat reserved If one selects 1 everything is fine.If one selects 2, bbo should not accept a login for the next 10 or 15 minutes. If someone has an emergency, he will not try to reconnect within that time. If someone is just being rude, it will be faster to leave after the board.In case of 3 perhaps host and/or partner have to approve the leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jikl Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 I like hotshot's idea, but I have a feeling it would be a pain in the butt to code as it would impact on every area of BBO. :angry: Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 plus you'll get those who are on the juvenile side and click 'c' when planning on leaving anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaz_B Posted November 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Maybe it does not need to get this complicated. It is clear that it is too easy to leave the table now (and immediately join some other table). If the software would not let you leave the table until the end of the deal (after your first call), it might work. Of course a player could always log off BBO and reconnect, but that includes some clicking and some time wasted, so leaving the table would not be as impulsive decision as it is now (for some players). If the player wants to leave the table he can also ask to redeal (and explain that he wants to leave the table) and leave if redeal is granted. Or he can ask the host to boot him. A player should be allowed to leave the table if he has not made his first call yet.I do not agree that dummy should be allowed to leave the table (if not leaving BBO as well) until the deal is complete (although dummy is not technically necessary to be present, it is the matter of attitude). I think that would not cause much programming work to implement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayser Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Maybe BBO software could send a message to such player everytime that happens to let him know that he is (probably) not doing it right. I think this is a good thing to try. Perhaps it would not discurage the worst abusers, but at least it can do no harm. And since it can do no harm, the detection algorithm need not be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.