Do you act in sandwich unfavorable

[Mbodell]

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Assuming you play 1nt here is a sandwich t/o, do you act here, and if so do you X or bid 2♦?

 

If your 1nt were natural, would you pass, bid 1nt, X, bid 2♦ or something else?

[MrAce]

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Assuming you play 1nt here is a sandwich t/o, do you act here, and if so do you X or bid 2♦?

 

If your 1nt were natural, would you pass, bid 1nt, X, bid 2♦ or something else?

 

if 1 NT is sandwich, i would pass. If natural was available i would bid 1 NT.

[mike777]

if 1 NT is sandwich, i would pass. If natural was available i would bid 1 NT.

 

 

ditto

[JLOGIC]

I would bid a natural 1N. Not playing that I would still never pass, our hand is too good. I prefer 2D to X, it is ugly but it is the likeliest bid to get us to 3N if we can make 3N.

[mike777]

ty Justin I just felt my pass was wrong/chicken ...too easy to get robbed/jobbed

[gnasher]

If our methods mean that we have to bid 2♦ on this, it's time to rethink our methods.

[gszes]

there is just no need to bid now. Both opps

unlimited and bidding vul/nvul and your

system does not even allow for an accurate

description. It is not timid to pass just

reasonable. Wait and see if opps are going

to let the bidding die lho next call and rho

call should give you a good indication if

backing in is safe.

[inquiry]

At our table, NS had an easier time of it. The bidding was all pass to south. So three questions pop up and I can add a 4th question.

1,) what should south do at your table

2.) Is it correct to open the west hand or pass in first seat (hand shown below)

3.) There is a question about what the correct rebid should be with west hand if he had opened

4,) There was a question about the defense against 2♥

 

West's hand was

♠ K J 2

♥ K Q J 9 5

♦ 4

♣ J 9 8 4

 

q1, would have bid a shaky 2♦

q2. i would have opened the west hand

q3. I would have raised 1♠ to 2♠

q4. will have to wait until the hands are shown. For the results, 2♥ was down one, while 2♦ made 10 tricks.

[Mbodell]

there is just no need to bid now. Both opps

unlimited and bidding vul/nvul and your

system does not even allow for an accurate

description. It is not timid to pass just

reasonable. Wait and see if opps are going

to let the bidding die lho next call and rho

call should give you a good indication if

backing in is safe.

 

So you do you back in if it continues:

 

2♣ - P - 2♥?

[barmar]

I was on the verge of opening, but then decided to downgrade because of the acelessness.

[Mbodell]

At our table, NS had an easier time of it. The bidding was all pass to south. So three questions pop up and I can add a 4th question.

1,) what should south do at your table

2.) Is it correct to open the west hand or pass in first seat (hand shown below)

3.) There is a question about what the correct rebid should be with west hand if he had opened

4,) There was a question about the defense against 2♥

 

West's hand was

♠ K J 2

♥ K Q J 9 5

♦ 4

♣ J 9 8 4

 

q1, would have bid a shaky 2♦

q2. i would have opened the west hand

q3. I would have raised 1♠ to 2♠

q4. will have to wait until the hands are shown. For the results, 2♥ was down one, while 2♦ made 10 tricks.

 

Q1, I probably would have bid 2♦, but don't mind pass, and our partnership tends to pass flatter hands more than most.

Q2, I definitely would have opened the west hand, even playing decently sound 2/1 given rule of 20, such a good heart suit for lead, and good support for the other major if partner has spades.

Q3, I might well have bid 2♣, but I can see that 2♠ is probably better since if partner bids 2♥ over 2♣ I'm not really strong enough to bid 2♠ and we could well be in a 5-2 missing a much better 5-3 (or even 4-3 with short hand ruffs).

Q4, What was the defensive question? There were a decent number of places where we could have set them more than 1. Obviously winning the first round of spades and then clearing S's clubs and then playing on diamonds does it. So does pitching the spade 9 instead of the 5th diamond from S. So does cashing the clubs before playing on the diamonds. But I'm not sure if the diamond and club positions are clear to S. I played the diamond T and then 9 on the second round of the suit hoping to maintain the 7 to the 8 as entries to partners 5 diamonds. But maybe that confused things for him? Given they stopped low maybe I should just hope/expect that partner has a ton of entries since he has most of our partnership assets.

 

 

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[inquiry]

Q4, What was the defensive question? There were a decent number of places where we could have set them more than 1. Obviously winning the first round of spades and then clearing S's clubs and then playing on diamonds does it. So does pitching the spade 9 instead of the 5th diamond from S. So does cashing the clubs before playing on the diamonds. But I'm not sure if the diamond and club positions are clear to S.

 

As you point out, there are several ways to take an extra trick. We can go over the logic of each one, but lord knows I made enough defensive errors I don't want to caste stones least I get buried in a return avalanche.

 

But there are some questions about trick 7 and your carding from the defense on this hand (I have not looked at other defensive hands for you guys) i wanted to ask about.

 

• Trick one. The ♦2 surely looks like udca.
• Trick two. The low heart by north COULD BE (but because of later defense must not be) trump suit preference showing club value or nothing of value
• Trick three low heart by north should be pointing now to club value, certainly denying spade value?
• Trick four, declarer shows out on 2nd round of trumps. North makes far sighted unblock of the intermediate diamond (nine).
• Trick five, club discard by south seems to be on a winning track (keeping long diamonds)
• Trick six, the ♠4 confused me, normal count and inverted attitude maybe?
• Trick seven, all is obvious. Declarer had 5♥, 1♦ and didn't raise spades. Presumably south has accurate count on spades (if for no other reason than he ducked trick 8). All the trumps are in, so the defense can win at this point 1♣, 3♦, and 1♠ in the six card ending. South throws a diamond and lets the ♠J win trick eight. This is a 100% lose option. It LOSES even if west has the club king, because now declarer makes instead of easy down one. Throwing the diamond was a clear mistake
• Trick eight, south wins the spade Jack. The hand is double dummy now. You are going to score two diamonds and the club Ace. If declarer has the club king, he will make. i think bang the club ace to see what partner plays (encouraging card or not) seems reasonable. But the easy defense was already screwed up when the diamond was pitched on the last trump.

What would help the defense is if north could, at sometime, have signaled a club value. There was several chances to do so. i actually think North defended the hand very well (assuming normal count signals) with his sequence of plays, including the excellent unblock of the ♦9, would have convinced me north had the ♣King. Any way, at trick seven, south knows the hand is down one if he throws a spade, and down two if partner happens to hold the ♣K. The line of play he took allows it to make if declarer has the ♣King, and only managed to set it one when he didn't.

 

So the questions i had were, what signalling methods were you using (and could you show a club value), and why did south discard the certain setting trick on the last round of hearts?

[Codo]

I had passed 1 ♠ and doubled 2 ♥. Partner had bid 2 NT and I had played 3 ♦. If partner had bid 2♠ or 3 ♣ I had passed.

Same had been done after 2♠ passed aorund to me.

After 1 NT or 2♣ passed to me, I had balanced with 2 ♦.

[y66]

If our methods mean that we have to bid 2♦ on this, it's time to rethink our methods.

 

What do rethinkers do? Ditch sandwich notrump?

[Cthulhu D]

What do rethinkers do? Ditch sandwich notrump?

 

Several of the posters in this thread have noted previously that it's becoming progressively more and more valuable for the sandwich 1NT to be natural because today the opponents could have a combined 12 count on an auction like (1C)-Pass-(1H)- ?? whereas in the days of yore they rated to have at least 18.

[inquiry]

What do rethinkers do? Ditch sandwich notrump?

 

I use to play sandwich a lot. I have ditched it except in three situations.

1. I am a passed hand
2. A regular partner ask that we play it and I have other things I want him to give on with respect to methods
3. A pick up partner wants to play it.

[Mbodell]

As you point out, there are several ways to take an extra trick. We can go over the logic of each one, but lord knows I made enough defensive errors I don't want to caste stones least I get buried in a return avalanche.

 

But there are some questions about trick 7 and your carding from the defense on this hand (I have not looked at other defensive hands for you guys) i wanted to ask about.

 

• Trick one. The ♦2 surely looks like udca.
• Trick two. The low heart by north COULD BE (but because of later defense must not be) trump suit preference showing club value or nothing of value
• Trick three low heart by north should be pointing now to club value, certainly denying spade value?
• Trick four, declarer shows out on 2nd round of trumps. North makes far sighted unblock of the intermediate diamond (nine).
• Trick five, club discard by south seems to be on a winning track (keeping long diamonds)
• Trick six, the ♠4 confused me, normal count and inverted attitude maybe?
• Trick seven, all is obvious. Declarer had 5♥, 1♦ and didn't raise spades. Presumably south has accurate count on spades (if for no other reason than he ducked trick 8). All the trumps are in, so the defense can win at this point 1♣, 3♦, and 1♠ in the six card ending. South throws a diamond and lets the ♠J win trick eight. This is a 100% lose option. It LOSES even if west has the club king, because now declarer makes instead of easy down one. Throwing the diamond was a clear mistake
• Trick eight, south wins the spade Jack. The hand is double dummy now. You are going to score two diamonds and the club Ace. If declarer has the club king, he will make. i think bang the club ace to see what partner plays (encouraging card or not) seems reasonable. But the easy defense was already screwed up when the diamond was pitched on the last trump.

What would help the defense is if north could, at sometime, have signaled a club value. There was several chances to do so. i actually think North defended the hand very well (assuming normal count signals) with his sequence of plays, including the excellent unblock of the ♦9, would have convinced me north had the ♣King. Any way, at trick seven, south knows the hand is down one if he throws a spade, and down two if partner happens to hold the ♣K. The line of play he took allows it to make if declarer has the ♣King, and only managed to set it one when he didn't.

 

So the questions i had were, what signalling methods were you using (and could you show a club value), and why did south discard the certain setting trick on the last round of hearts?

 

Our signalling is upside down attitude, standard count, standard (not upsidedown) discards, standard suit preference, generally no signals in trump ("random" spots, although more often from the bottom then is probably wise, occasionally echo for a ruff and/or mild suit preference). We usually can signal values by discouraging other suits or pitching high other cards. So your trick 6 confusion causing speculation as to signalling was correct. But I don't think I can signal clubs more clearly than I did in the hand, but I didn't get a chance to signal all that clearly given I was generally following suit.