how much extra needed to cue as 2c opener?

[Stephen Tu]

[hv=sn=stephtu&s=SAK4HAKQJ52DTCA96&wn=GIB W&w=SQ7H93DQ8652CJT53&nn=GIB N&n=S962HT76DA973CQ74&en=GIB E&e=SJT853H84DKJ4CK82&d=e&v=e&b=22&a=P2C(Strong two club -- 19+ HCP%3B 23+ total po)P2D(2D bid waiting -- forcing to 2N)P2H(Opener's suit -- 5+ H%3B 19+ HCP%3B 23+ tota)P3H(3+ H%3B 5+ total points%3B forcing to 3N)P3S(Help-suit slam try -- 5+ H%3B 3+ S%3B 2-11 8)P5H(3+ H%3B 5- 8421 HCP in H%3B 6+ total points)P6H(5+ H%3B 3+ S%3B 2-11 8421 HCP in S%3B 26+ tota)PPP&p=CJCQCKCAHAH3H6H8HKH9H7H4HQD2HTD4DTD8DADJC4C2C9CTD6D7DKH2SAS7S2S3SKSQS6S8HJC5D3S5H5D5D9STC6C3C7C8SJS4DQS9]400|300[/hv]

 

GIB makes a lot of annoying jumps to 5M when I don't really know what it wants. Should 3s really promise extras beyond a min 2c opener? Shouldn't GIB just bid say 4d and pass 4h, whereas with say an extra Qs take another call beyond 4h? I guess it's hard to program cue-bidding logic. I'm used to below game cues not promising massive extras.

 

With scattered A + Q + Q, or A+K+Q, does it consistently bid 2nt over 2c, or still 2d waiting? That would limit 3h to some extent and would suggest I just bid 4h.

[johnu]

GIB makes a lot of annoying jumps to 5M when I don't really know what it wants.

 

I agree with you except I would add that I don't know what it shows in addition to not knowing what it wants. Sometimes GIB has an outside ace like in this hand, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes there is a trump honor (K or QJ according to the description), sometimes there isn't. How are you supposed to make a reasonable decision when GIB's hand is so undefined and taking another bid will probably lead to a minus score if you guess wrong? If a specific meaning can't be decided, I would just as soon see the jump to 5 of a major eliminated as a possible bid if GIB can't cue bid or take control by using Blackwood.

 

And don't get me started about help suit slam tries. I've never heard of anybody who uses them in the real world and there doesn't seem to be any criteria for what qualifies for help and what doesn't, and how many outside extras are needed to give a positive response without help in the asking suit.

[Bbradley62]

With scattered A + Q + Q, or A+K+Q, does it consistently bid 2nt over 2c, or still 2d waiting? That would limit 3h to some extent and would suggest I just bid 4h.

From what I can tell, with those scattered values, GIB consistently bids 2N over 2♣, but only with a balanced hand. So, the question is whether GIB would bid 2N and 3♥ holding Qxxx, xxxx, AQxx, x or if he would splinter to show this hand.

[Bbradley62]

GIB makes a lot of annoying jumps to 5M when I don't really know what it wants.

I agree with you except I would add that I don't know what it shows in addition to not knowing what it wants.

I thought that prior threads had established that GIB is asking you to bid 6M with good trumps and pass otherwise. Of course, if that's the case, it would be nice if that was incorporated into the explanation.

[pigpenz]

I thought that prior threads had established that GIB is asking you to bid 6M with good trumps and pass otherwise. Of course, if that's the case, it would be nice if that was incorporated into the explanation.

and how many times have you had just that and it goes down? <_<

for me I find the most consistent annoying bid that GIB makes is a jump to 5♥ or 5♠

I have yet to figure out what it really wants.

 

On above hand you have 9 tricks, generally I would play raise to 3♥ would show and A or K somewhere

so really a raise to 4 of game is ok, unless you have a suit you need help in that would give you a reasonable

play for six. I would assume north with say A and KQ combination or something along those lines could drive to slam,

so we need ruffs or 3 tricks from north to make slam.

 

but I agree, lets program the 5 bid to actually mean something not some nebulous call that says partner I am going to

hang you for cue bidding

[Bbradley62]

Here's another jump to 5M: [hv=lin=pn|abyduk,~~M31974,~~M31972,~~M31973|st%7C%7Cmd%7C4S38QKAH7JAD7JAC8Q%2CS247JH89TQD489C59%2CS5TH34KD5TC23TJKA%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%206%7Csv%7Ce%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C2C%7Can%7CStrong%20two%20club%20--%2019%2B%20HCP%3B%2023%2B%20total%20points%3B%20forcing%20to%202N%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C3C%7Can%7CPositive%20--%205%2B%20C%3B%206%2B%208421%20HCP%20in%20C%3B%208%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C3S%7Can%7C5%2B%20S%3B%2019%2B%20HCP%3B%2023%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C5S%7Can%7C5%2B%20C%3B%203%2B%20S%3B%206%2B%208421%20HCP%20in%20C%3B%208%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C7S%7Can%7C5%2B%20S%3B%2032%2B%20total%20points%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CD2%7C]360|270[/hv]