Scoring North or South

[bluejak]

I find that when all men and many women are doing the scoring, it doesn't matter whether they usually show it to East or West, when it is a mixed pair. Pisses me off.

As someone else posts, this seems to make no sense, but I shall guess what you mean: the Bridgemate is offered to the male opponent for checking?

 

If so, I object strongly to the term "all men". Even if I was the only one - and I don't suppose I am - I offer the Bridgemate to both opponents and let them choose.

 

I am astonished over what some people can make a problem.

 

If some regulation or CoC specifies the players responsible for recording and confirming (respectively) the result on a board then obviously the same players are responsible for the corresponding handling of Bridgemates.

 

And if no such regulation or CoC exists then there should be no more problem with Bridgemates than there has been through more than 80 years with travellers or similar forms to be written and confirmed.

Perhaps it is time you read and considered Law 74A2 which is what we are discussing indirectly. Or do you not consider breaching this Law 'a problem'?

[aguahombre]

Good grief. If to whom I hand the BridgeMate might be a violation of 74A2, we have gone too far with "political correctness"

 

I hand it to the person who has put away his/her cards first, unless otherwise requested by the opponents; this is because a person slow to put his/her cards back into the board will stop doing that task, drop them back on the table, and refocus on the gadget. I will offer no observation here on gender :rolleyes:

 

And, what is so difficult about just plain sitting North if you are the one who is going to enter scores? Those who are superstitious would merely have to learn to do it or teach partner to do it.

[mycroft]

Because I have been sensitised to this sort of thing, I notice these sorts of things. And maybe I'm not just "the man in the mixed pair" or "the better player in the mixed pair" (note that I am clearly *not* in some of my mixed pairs, but for those that I am) because of my non-playing skills, but it's almost invariant that I get the bridgemate, or I am asked to sign the score slip - if my partner's female. If he's not, it's less invariant.

 

Other people may have different experiences, but that's mine, and yes, I did notice it. So I started explicitly not doing it, without actually saying anything unless someone else did.

[jillybean]

If we E/W were declarer, I hand it to the person who played the hand.

If we were declarer, I hand it to the female of the mixed pair otherwise the person who appears most ready or interested.

[mjj29]

If we E/W were declarer, I hand it to the person who played the hand.

If we were declarer, I hand it to the female of the mixed pair otherwise the person who appears most ready or interested.

Blatant sexism (-;

[barmar]

Read the post directly above yours.

I understood mycroft, I just couldn't figure out how he extracted that meaning from your post.

[barmar]

Maybe the best way to avoid accusations of bias or sexism is to give it to East on even boards (both start with "E"), West on odd ones.

[Lanor Fow]

When i'm north (something I try to avoid) I put it in the centre of the table and see who goes to confirm. I then will pass it to them.

[aguahombre]

With South always being declarer and West always being on opening lead, North and East really should have some function other than just decoration.

[mycroft]

I understood mycroft, I just couldn't figure out how he extracted that meaning from your post.

With a (first) name like Vampyr's and the comment, and my experience, I Just Guessed. You'll note that I also didn't mention which side of the mixed pair I chose to give it to in my first comment - but You Just Guessed, didn't you?

[jillybean]

Blatant sexism (-;

Don't get me started :D

[pran]

[...]

Perhaps it is time you read and considered Law 74A2 which is what we are discussing indirectly. Or do you not consider breaching this Law 'a problem'?

Of course I know Law 74A2, it is in fact the law that in my opinion (and in Norway not only mine) is the most important law in the book.

 

And how anybody can feel annoyed or embarrassed by which player in each pair handles the Bridgemate so long as both sides participate in the registration of a score is beyond me.

 

What I really would consider a violation of Law 74A2 is any objection to me handling our side of Bridgemate duties in case my partner (for whatever reason) prefers that I take care of them.

[Vampyr]

When i'm north (something I try to avoid) I put it in the centre of the table and see who goes to confirm. I then will pass it to them.

 

Yes, I usually do that too; I put it in front of me facing opposite.

 

With South always being declarer and West always being on opening lead, North and East really should have some function other than just decoration.

 

I think the newspapers are not always telling the truth about this.

[c_corgi]

On the rare occasions when I am both called upon to enter the score and manage to persuade the device to proceed to the verification stage, the surprise tends to cause me to drop the handset. I can only hope that it has always landed in the middle of the table or a demonstrably neutral part of the floor.

[barmar]

With a (first) name like Vampyr's and the comment, and my experience, I Just Guessed. You'll note that I also didn't mention which side of the mixed pair I chose to give it to in my first comment - but You Just Guessed, didn't you?

I know she's a woman. You mentioned "the mixed pair issue", which suggests a sexist bias. She also mentioned mixed pairs, but as hard as I tried, I couldn't figure out how to interpret sexism from "it doesn't matter whether they usually show it to East or West". I suspected she was pissed off by sexist bias as well, because what else is there to be pissed about, but she specifically said "it doesn't matter", which seems to be the opposite.

 

Maybe it's a language problem, and she didn't write what she meant. Vampyr, are you not a native English speaker?

[gordontd]

Vampyr, are you not a native English speaker?

She's an American speaker, but speaks pretty good British English, albeit with an accent.

 

I think the post in question was just stream-of-consciousness irritation.

[PeterAlan]

I find that when all men and many women are doing the scoring, it doesn't matter whether they usually show it to East or West, when it is a mixed pair they'll give it to the man. Pisses me off.

Barmar, Vampyr was just posting a terse reply that she thought she could abbreviate without misunderstanding. Missing words as italics above, I believe. I could have added "whether he's sitting East or West" if you really want it spelled out.

[PeterAlan]

Yes, I usually do that too; I put it in front of me facing opposite.

When I'm a scoring N, I try to do this unless I've already had a remark from E/W about who will verify. However, I don't always manage this, and when I'm just automatically going through the motions without thinking about it (which is all too easy to do) I'll occasionally not comply with such a request the next time (embarrassing when a female W is the designated verifier for all the reasons above).

 

I suspect that there may be another factor at play - I'm right-handed, keep and key the Bridgemate on my right, and put it on the table with my right hand. Doing that, when extending my right arm to put the Bridgemate on the table it's physically easier / more natural to move it across my body and leave it slightly in front of E than it is to place it in front of W. I think if I were a scoring S I'd have a slight bias to inviting W to verify both for that reason and because as N I'm familiar with the player on my left being the commoner choice of verifier.

[Vampyr]

Many comments in this thread have indicated that the verifying pair (normally E/W) often have a preference as to who checks the Bridgemate and that those who score will tend, for various reasons, to usually hand it one way or the other.

 

The issue in the OP, however, was about E/W apparently having a preference as to whether North or South was doing the scoring. I can't see why this would matter to the opposition; can anyone?

[Vampyr]

She's an American speaker, but speaks pretty good British English, albeit with an accent.

 

No, it's you lot that have an accent.

[PeterAlan]

The issue in the OP, however, was about E/W apparently having a preference as to whether North or South was doing the scoring. I can't see why this would matter to the opposition; can anyone?

The issue in the OP was about whether it was OK for S to do the scoring - I don't see anything that says that it was an E/W that raised the question - but, in the absence of any Law or regulation that specifies who should be doing it, like you I can't see any reason for it to be any business of E/W which way round it is. The personalities of the particular Norths and Souths, their tendencies to hog Bridgemates (or not), etc would be more significant table-by-table factors I would have thought.

 

Occasionally, both travellers and Bridgemates are in use (for example, if the Bridgemate wireless connection is iffy, or if there's a requirement to fill out travellers for a sim pairs), and it can sometimes save a bit of time (though is marginally more likely to incur errors) if one of N/S does the traveller and the other the Bridgemate.

[aguahombre]

No, it's you lot that have an accent.

Yes, and our writing and reading comprehension is often affected by our accent. We are the ones who took English and turned it into a different language (we and the Aussies). We should be the ones who endeavor to understand real English, not the English.

[barmar]

Barmar, Vampyr was just posting a terse reply that she thought she could abbreviate without misunderstanding. Missing words as italics above, I believe. I could have added "whether he's sitting East or West" if you really want it spelled out.

You have to admit, those italicizes words are kind of important -- they're the whole point of her complaint!

[barmar]

suspect that there may be another factor at play - I'm right-handed, keep and key the Bridgemate on my right, and put it on the table with my right hand. Doing that, when extending my right arm to put the Bridgemate on the table it's physically easier / more natural to move it across my body and leave it slightly in front of E than it is to place it in front of W. I think if I were a scoring S I'd have a slight bias to inviting W to verify both for that reason and because as N I'm familiar with the player on my left being the commoner choice of verifier.

I'm also right-handed, and keep it on my right. But when I finish scoring, all I usually do is rotate the device in place, and maybe slide it towards the closest opponent, which is West.

[daveharty]

Good grief. If to whom I hand the BridgeMate might be a violation of 74A2, we have gone too far with "political correctness"

This was your first clue? ;)