responses to sandwich NT (strong) overcall

[Stephen Tu]

[hv=sn=stephtu&s=S973HQ76DT6CT9843&wn=Robot&w=SQJ85HK843D85C762&nn=Robot&n=SATHAT52DKJ93CKQJ&en=Robot&e=SK642HJ9DAQ742CA5&d=e&v=o&b=14&a=1D(Minor suit opening -- 3+ D%3B 11-21 HCP%3B 12-22 total points)P1H(One over one -- 4+ H%3B 6+ total points)1N(One notrump overcall -- 2-5 C%3B 2-5 D%3B 2-5 H%3B 2-5 S%3B 15-17 HCP%3B 18- total points%3B stop in D%3B stop in H)P2C(4+ C%3B 8-16 total points)P2N(Invitational to 3NT game -- 2-5 C%3B 2-5 D%3B 2-4 H%3B 2-4 S%3B 17 HCP%3B 18 total points%3B stop in D%3B stop in H)PPP]400|300[/hv]

 

At some point GIB switched to strong NT overcalls in the sandwich position, which is fine by me. But if 2c response is natural (agree), shouldn't the range be something like 0-8 pts, signoff?

 

What are the other responses? Is 2d also natural? 2h? seems to me best is 2h= stayman, others natural.

[nathan2008]

I learned that part a few days ago. All 2x are nat. But as opps are GIB, in general, if u bid sandwich 1nt, in 90% case u have no game. (because opps have at least 11+6 hcp) i will pass with your hand.

[Bbradley62]

... in 90% case u have no game. (because opps have at least 11+6 hcp) i will pass with your hand.

It doesn't look to me like he was trying get to game; it looks to me like he was trying to run to a contract where his side wouldn't get slaughtered. I agree that if 2♣ is natural it should be a signoff.

[Bbradley62]

At some point GIB switched to strong NT overcalls in the sandwich position, which is fine by me.

V22 released Wednesday April 18

 

Main Changes:

• 
   
  
• A 1NT overcall in sandwich position (eg. 1C-P-1H-1N)) is now natural (15-17) by an unpassed hand, unusual otherwise.
  
• GIB will be more eager in making weak 2 Major openings.

[pigpenz]

yes i like the 8-16 point description :unsure:

[nathan2008]

in fact, i am not a fan of sandwich NT (even against humans) only give opps more information about my hand and against top players, will give them a chance to X my 1nt and get 300 or 500...

[Stephen Tu]

With opening bids getting lighter and lighter, and opps responding on nothing, I actually switched from takeout to strong a couple years back, and have seen more good results than bad. Against sound opening bidders + responders who have 6, you won't have 3nt on power, but when the opening is on 10 and the response is on 3 it's a different story!

 

Against robots who have their bids staying with the takeout variety might be better.

[pigpenz]

With opening bids getting lighter and lighter, and opps responding on nothing, I actually switched from takeout to strong a couple years back, and have seen more good results than bad. Against sound opening bidders + responders who have 6, you won't have 3nt on power, but when the opening is on 10 and the response is on 3 it's a different story!

 

Against robots who have their bids staying with the takeout variety might be better.

and against good opps it just paves the way for their declarer play better to wait and balance if necessary

[Stephen Tu]

and against good opps it just paves the way for their declarer play better to wait and balance if necessary

 

Not really. It's the good opps that are driving necessity of this with their light openings and responses. If you wait, balancing action is still often unclear, you defend some partial of theirs undoubled down 2 and meanwhile you could have rang up 3nt if partner knew what you had. Risk of good opps stealing you blind is > risk of them axing you or playing more accurately.

 

See thread

 

If you've got Roth-stone opener and responder with always 6+, then definitely there is less upside in this treatment. But these days opening can be 10 and response can be 2, I've definitely seen it happen! Even if you don't have game, sometimes this helps your side grab its partial when partner wasn't strong enough to overcall their long suit, and that can be enough.