ATB missing 6C

[kgr]

At our table the bidding was:

(1C)-2S-(3D)-P

(3NT)-P-(4D)-P

(6C)-AP

[hv=pc=n&s=sqjt743hj653dq4cq&w=s8hkt4dakjt52cat2&n=sk652h987d963c975&e=sa9haq2d87ckj8643&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1c(2+C)2s(weak)3d(forcing)3n(psych)dpp4ddpp4spp4nppp]399|300[/hv]

This was the bidding of our team mates in EW.

4NT asked to choice 5 minor game, and so I don't really agree with East's pass.

But my main question is:

Do you agree with the 2 DBLs of East? Do you also play at this level that forcing pass and DBL shows extras?

Is Pass by East forcing and should he pass iso DBL?

[JLOGIC]

lol

[kgr]

lol

Can you explain this a bit more?

(e.g. How should EW bid this?)

Thanks,

Koen

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

3D is forcing, we had this discussion, some disagreed, but for me,

forcing means 3D forces the partnership to play game.

 

Hence you are in a FP seq, and default FP agreements kick in.

 

I am not sure, you will find 6C after the psych, but you should not

end up playing 4NT.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[mike777]

yet another hand where pard should open 1nt.

 

1nt=(2s)=3d(gf)=(4s)

p=p=?

[gszes]

E was willing to x 3n and 4d but passed over

4s---this should be a strong clue that E does

not have a lot of wasted spade values. That

makes our spade singelton (and extra values)

golden for slam..I would bid 6c and p can

correct to 6d if they wish. Yes we might miss

a grand this way but surely if we show this

much extra p wont have any trouble bidding

seven with a hand just slightly better than

ours.

[gszes]

lol

too much to drink???? certainly not helpful

[JLOGIC]

too much to drink???? certainly not helpful

 

lol

[JLOGIC]

Seriously this is the expert bridge forum, we have a hand where a guy passed 4N and then we are asked to assign the blame. OP even says that 4N is pick a minor. Calling me drunk is pretty unfounded, maybe kgr will get more helpful replies if he respects the descriptions of the subforums. This kinda BS thread in the expert bridge forum 100 % deserves to be trolled.

[dave_w]

It's a good thing that East doubled the 3NT bid - otherwise West wouldn't have known that he had an opening bid - maybe East had psyched first chair unfavourable.

 

And then they definitely aren't making 4♦ it's best that I double that with 2 small, so as not to give away the trump position when it goes round to partner and he doubles.

[Zelandakh]

It's a good thing that East doubled the 3NT bid - otherwise West wouldn't have known that he had an opening bid - maybe East had psyched first chair unfavourable.

I thought about this too. I wonder if double of 3NT should not show a desire to double 4♠. That would give you a few extra options once they finally get there. It is clear on this auction that North is messing about so why not use the additional space usefully? I guess a logical alternative is for double to show a weak NT opening, pass to show real clubs and bidding to be natural with extras. Or just normal FP stuff.

 

Seriously though, why did East pass 4NT? I agree somewhat with Justin that posting this as an ATB in the Expert forum is pretty weird. Why not a "How to bid these hands" in the I/A forum? It seems to me this is really what you want to know here.

[dave_w]

Seriously though, why did East pass 4NT? I agree somewhat with Justin that posting this as an ATB in the Expert forum is pretty weird. Why not a "How to bid these hands" in the I/A forum? It seems to me this is really what you want to know here.

I agree with Justin to some extent. But I think it's just miss guided. ATB is the wrong question. A "what is your FP agreements?" here and we have an expert discussion forum question.

 

Although the answer to that question is surely "my standard FP agreements - ie pass/double inversion or 'standard'". A question does arise as to whether pass and pull should be doubt about strain vs a slam try. And what does a double of a contract that the opponents can't play in mean when we are in a FP as opposed to pass (or bidding?).

 

There are some interesting questions here. Unfortunately the answer to most of them is "whatever you and partner have discussed". And if you haven't discussed your FP agreements in this much detail - well now is your chance.

 

ATB: 50/50. Discuss your FP agreements.

[dake50]

Seriously this is the expert bridge forum, we have a hand where a guy passed 4N and then we are asked to assign the blame. OP even says that 4N is pick a minor. Calling me drunk is pretty unfounded, maybe kgr will get more helpful replies if he respects the descriptions of the subforums. This kinda BS thread in the expert bridge forum 100 % deserves to be trolled.

 

***

JLOGIC is right.

Have y'all never seen "dancing about" before sacrificing in 4S?

This is ancient psyching.

If your bids don't expose this psyching, change what your bids mean.

[kgr]

Seriously this is the expert bridge forum, we have a hand where a guy passed 4N and then we are asked to assign the blame. OP even says that 4N is pick a minor. Calling me drunk is pretty unfounded, maybe kgr will get more helpful replies if he respects the descriptions of the subforums. This kinda BS thread in the expert bridge forum 100 % deserves to be trolled.

The topic title didn't express my question well. West said that he would have bid 6 when East had bid 5m over 4NT, so yes; the blame is for passing 4NT:

"But my main question is:

Do you agree with the 2 DBLs of East? Do you also play at this level that forcing pass and DBL shows extras?

Is Pass by East forcing and should he pass iso DBL?"

Actually I don't think that you should have the same agreements as over a normal forcing pass (Pass-pull showing extras), because you can also bid 4C/4D as forcing (is it?).

I wondered what agreements experts have here and how they would bid these hands.

[han]

From what I understand the expert forum really is intended for people who consider themselves experts.

 

If you consider yourself intermediate or advanced and you want to know expert opinions on some topic, consider posting in the I/A forum.

[kgr]

From what I understand the expert forum really is intended for people who consider themselves experts.

 

If you consider yourself intermediate or advanced and you want to know expert opinions on some topic, consider posting in the I/A forum.

I didn't know that only experts (or people who consider themselves experts) can post in this forum.

Oops..I did it again. Maybe they would better secure the forum so that only experts (or people who consider themselves experts) can post here and that their interesting discussions are not disturbed by non-experts.

BTW: Can I post in the beginner forum if it is simply an answer to a question and not educational material?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I didn't know that only experts (or people who consider themselves experts) can post in this forum.

Oops..I did it again. Maybe they would better secure the forum so that only experts (or people who consider themselves experts) can post here and that their interesting discussions are not disturbed by non-experts.

BTW: Can I post in the beginner forum if it is simply an answer to a question and not educational material?

I won't post a problem in the Expert Forum anymore.

Apparently it is reserved for "Experts Only" to initiate posts as well as reply to them.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Expert-Class Bridge

 

Forum designated for expert bridge players to discuss more advanced topics.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

I used to think it was good to post here to assure an "expert opinion".....

But by their reaction, these experts seem be insulted if a non-expert posts a problem here.

[Fluffy]

Just what do you think I/A or even N/B are for?, do you think people post there to seek for suboptimal opinions? lol

 

 

Expert-Class Bridge

 

Forum designated for expert bridge players to discuss more advanced topics.

 

This is just the problem, the forum title has nothing to do with the OP's skills nor the replier's level, it has to do with the readers, who will seek problems for a concrete level.

[Fluffy]

Most peeple don't have a lot of experience dealing with psyches (or at least me), so I don't find any post of this kind to be irrelevant. I started reading this post without noticing or caring what forum it was posted about, and my first impression was that East was losing his precious time and space doubling. From what dawe said I think he believes something similar. East bids 4♣ and slam is reached. And you can later thank north for the free space he gave you for that.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Just what do you think I/A or even N/B are for?, do you think people post there to seek for suboptimal opinions? lol

 

This is just the problem, the forum title has nothing to do with the OP's skills nor the replier's level, it has to do with the readers, who will seek problems for a concrete level.

What is getting tiresome are the criticisms about the posters posting in the "wrong" forum .

 

"They" say the problem is either too advanced for the N/B or not advanced enough for the Expert Forum.

 

Geez.... just provide an answer to the poster's question(s), as he has posted in earnest.

[Lurpoa]

Seriously this is the expert bridge forum, we have a hand where a guy passed 4N and then we are asked to assign the blame. OP even says that 4N is pick a minor. Calling me drunk is pretty unfounded, maybe kgr will get more helpful replies if he respects the descriptions of the subforums. This kinda BS thread in the expert bridge forum 100 % deserves to be trolled.

 

♥♥♥

 

 

Right.

Expert Forum

 

♥♥♥

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