Bid definition that needs updating

[dwar0123]

I've been wrong an awful lot, but I am pretty sure that a minimum of 12 total points on the 4♦ bid is to low.

 

[hv=sn=dwar0123,~~M29145,~~M29143,~~M29144|st||md|4S458JQKH5JD69QKAC%2CS236AH2346KDJC46A%2CS7H7TAD4578C289TQ%2C|rh||ah|Board%206|sv|e|mb|p|mb|1S|an|Major%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%201|mb|p|mb|1N|an|Forcing%20one%20notrump%20--%203-%20S%3B%206%2B%20HCP%3B%2012-%20total%20points%20|mb|p|mb|4D|an|5%2B%20S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%20biddable%20D%3B%2012-22%20total|mb|p|mb|p|mb|p|pc|DJ|pc|D4|pc|D3|pc|DQ|pc|DA|pc|H2|pc|D5|pc|D2|pc|DK|pc|S6|pc|D7|pc|DT|pc|SQ|pc|SA|pc|S7|pc|S9|pc|C6|pc|C9|pc|CJ|pc|D6|pc|SK|pc|S2|pc|C2|pc|ST|pc|SJ|pc|S3|pc|C8|pc|C7|pc|S8|pc|H4|pc|CT|pc|H8|pc|S5|pc|H3|pc|H7|pc|C5|pc|S4|pc|C4|pc|HT|pc|C3|pc|H5|pc|H6|pc|HA|pc|H9|pc|CQ|pc|CK|pc|D9|pc|CA|pc|HJ|pc|HK|pc|D8|pc|HQ|]400|300[/hv]

[Stephen Tu]

4 diamonds arguably shouldn't show diamonds. Most good players play this as a self-splinter, basically self-sufficient spades, stiff or void D, just short of a 2c opener. It's not a bid that comes up a whole lot, which is why GIB probably doesn't have it defined and falls back to some default meaning.

 

3 diamonds is absolutely forcing, so there's no real need for 4d to also show a diamond hand.

[nathan2008]

even with human, i don't think your pd will understand 4d :)... with best hand style, i will bid 4s after 1s-1nt... or maybe open 4s....

[dwar0123]

4 diamonds arguably shouldn't show diamonds. Most good players play this as a self-splinter, basically self-sufficient spades, stiff or void D, just short of a 2c opener. It's not a bid that comes up a whole lot, which is why GIB probably doesn't have it defined and falls back to some default meaning.

 

3 diamonds is absolutely forcing, so there's no real need for 4d to also show a diamond hand.

Ya, I was expecting it to be a self splinter, but I checked and it wasn't and I thought if any hand is described by a 4♦ non splinter bid, then my hand was it.

 

I didn't notice the absurdly low total point count until after it was to late.

 

But ya, changing this to a self splinter or some other useful bid would be great, at best it is useless right now and really it is a trap for new gib players who are not familiar with how GIB interprets descriptions(or too lazy to fully read them out and assume they make sense with the rest of the description).

 

even with human, i don't think your pd will understand 4d :)... with best hand style, i will bid 4s after 1s-1nt... or maybe open 4s....

Man, you are such a gib apologist, if you were in charge of progress humanity would still be in the stone age.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't bid 4♦ with a human partner unless I had a stiff or void. But it is reasonable as a player to expect that bids have sensible meanings. At least when possible and it certainly is possible here.

[pigpenz]

4 diamonds arguably shouldn't show diamonds. Most good players play this as a self-splinter, basically self-sufficient spades, stiff or void D, just short of a 2c opener. It's not a bid that comes up a whole lot, which is why GIB probably doesn't have it defined and falls back to some default meaning.

 

3 diamonds is absolutely forcing, so there's no real need for 4d to also show a diamond hand.

would you bet your life on it that 3♦ is 100% forcing?

what would north do with a potential bar bid like where they are 1426

only thing I would take as 100% forcing is 2♣ and I have seen GIB pass when

auction goes

2♣ 2♦

3♠ pass

which i would play as 100 % forcing

[barmar]

This 4♦ bid isn't in GIB's system, i.e. it will never make it itself. It's only in the rule database to provide a meaning if a human does it.

 

3♦ shows: Strong hand -- 4+ D; 5+ S; 21- HCP; 19-22 total points

 

GIB will only bid 1NT with <6 HCP if it has spade support; in that case, it will jump to 4♠. In any other case, it has 6-11 points, and that means there's enough for game, and it won't pass.