ATB 5cX -1100

[dwar0123]

2/1 gf imps

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sj943h8d76cakq642&w=sa865h754dat3c975&n=st2hqt32dq9854c83&e=skq7hakj96dkj2cjt&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p1h2c2hp3d3s4dp4hppdp5cdppp]399|300[/hv]

So I guess we have 3 questions.

 

1. Did north have his double given partners bidding?

2. What exactly does south show with the 3♠ bid?

3. Should south run to 5♣ here?

[mgoetze]

1. Did north have his double given partners bidding?

No - at IMPs it's not worthwhile to try and convert 50 to 100 at the price of telling opps how to play the trump suit.

 

2. What exactly does south show with the 3♠ bid?

A substantially stronger hand than he had.

 

3. Should south run to 5♣ here?

Abstain.

[Phil]

South is crazy.

[broze]

Yeah, the 3♠ bid is not even worth discussion.

[inquiry]

South is crazy.

 

Sorry, this is an understatement... http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif

[gszes]

3s is trying too hard to thread the needle by finding a spade

fit. If p has clubs and "sacs" at 5c its bad period. The opps

have found a fit and are looking for game at least that leaves

p with precious lttle resources.

 

The x was poor no matter how much you envision in p hand while

all of your values are in opps suit the also seem to be

finessable with the bidding reinforcing the concept of your

probable distribution. You might easily have zero tricks

not a great hand to x with.

[aguahombre]

South is getting bombarded with distainful comments. Allow me to add another :rolleyes:

 

Furthermore, I have sympathy with North's double of 4H. He knows his partner, and is trying to shut him up.

[Codo]

I had doubled 4 ♥ expecting 1100 not 100. My partner bids a hand with around 5 tricks in my short suits, what do I waiting for? Do I want to here a 4 ♠ or 5 ♣ bid.

 

South is playing something weird, no need to comment.

[mikl_plkcc]

I would not double the 4♥ with 4 ♥s, but always double with 5 ♥s since in most cases 4♥ cannot make with such distribution.

[wyman]

at the price of telling opps how to play the trump suit.

 

I agree north shouldn't rip it at IMPs, but south already bid 2C-3S. Is east really going to play trumps wrong when EW have only 6 diamonds between them?

[mgoetze]

I agree north shouldn't rip it at IMPs, but south already bid 2C-3S. Is east really going to play trumps wrong when EW have only 6 diamonds between them?

Competent opponents will remember even those parts of the auction when playing, of course, but it seems to me we are not talking about a very high standard game here. ;)

[aguahombre]

The quality of partner would be my only concern. With a decent one who actually looked at her hand during the earlier auction and again while sitting for the double, the location of the defenders' (our) hearts would be mildly interesting while they were going for a number.

[han]

I don't agree that south showed a strong hand in terms of HCP. South showed a distributional hand with clubs and spades, not defense.

 

5C was really bad though.

[Fluffy]

5♣ is totaly hopeless, after showing extreme ofence he wants to bid again?, bidding further is like telling partner that he is a jerk and he knows nothing about this game.

 

Double and 3♠ are bad, I think 3♠ is worse but close.

[dwar0123]

Well it looks like I am the one mostly to blame for this. I thought the 3♠ was very pushy when I made it, but apparently my sanity is in fact in question. :(

 

I was pretty confident that I wasn't showing high card points, due to the lack of a double and hence my defensive values were questionable. I pulled it because I was afraid my partner would be counting on me for more then I had in this regards. This dissonance between these two positions is probably a major sign I am wrong. If I can't trust my partner's double based on my bidding, then my bidding is probably wrong.

 

However, given that I did not double nor bid michaels, what type of hand am I showing with this bid. I know it was stated stronger but I could use an actual example please.

[CSGibson]

AKxx x xx AKxxxx would be around my minimum expected for this sequence, and I'm uncomfortable with my sequence if I really don't have any spots in my two suits.

 

If I'm bidding spades, I have a reason. Jxxx is not a reason.

[Fluffy]

I think KQxx KQxxxx wih nobody vul might be enough. But 6-4 is not the most likelly shape, because it would require both suits to be strong. 7-4 and 7-5 are more like it. with 6-5 you would normally do michel's, but maybe with suit disparity such as the ne oyu have here you might want to encourge clubs.

[lowerline]

1. Yes

2. More than he has

3. No

 

Without South's 3♠ North might not have doubled. So 100% to South.

 

That being said, you are a bit unlucky. Instead of bidding 3♦, East might just as well have bid 2♠. That would have been enough to shut up both North and South.

 

Steven

[the hog]

South is an absolute nutter.. The 3S bid showed a far better hand. The x was fine and the 5C bid was insane. How long has this player been playing, one week?

[dwar0123]

I think KQxx KQxxxx wih nobody vul might be enough. But 6-4 is not the most likelly shape, because it would require both suits to be strong. 7-4 and 7-5 are more like it. with 6-5 you would normally do michel's, but maybe with suit disparity such as the ne oyu have here you might want to encourge clubs.

Going by this, it seems the problem wasn't the hand strength it was just the quality of the spade suit?

 

 

South is an absolute nutter.. The 3S bid showed a far better hand. The x was fine and the 5C bid was insane. How long has this player been playing, one week?

:blink:

[han]

I'd bid 2C followed by 3S on Jxxxx x x AKQxxx.

 

I disagree with the hog, double was not fine at all. North has 0 tricks.

[P_Marlowe]

#3 No - X was penalty.

#1 depends, in the end North has 2 (1 1/2) tricks against 4H, his partner showed a

reasonable hand, chances are, that they go down, and the X should also prevent p

from bidding on.

XX is unlikely, and X= cost just 170 or 220.

#2 a stronger hand, 64 is ok

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Fluffy]

I think KQxx KQxxxx wih nobody vul might be enough. But 6-4 is not the most likelly shape, because it would require both suits to be strong. 7-4 and 7-5 are more like it. with 6-5 you would normally do michel's, but maybe with suit disparity such as the ne oyu have here you might want to encourge clubs.

 

Going by this, it seems the problem wasn't the hand strength it was just the quality of the spade suit?

 

Not only, the ODR is different and as important as suit quality, Jxxx AKQxxx has 1-3 defensive tricks and 6-7 winners, KQxx KQ10xxx has 0-2 defensive tricks 7-8 winners. (maybe exagerating the numbers a bit, but you get the point)

[neilkaz]

South's bidding on this hand could serve as a classic example of how not to bid a competitive bridge hand. It also is a great example of what can happen when one player takes a view and then decides to mastermind the auction.

 

South's decision to bid 3♠ after pd has passed twice and when the opps are in a game try auction is a pipe dream hoping that pd fits ♠ and that if so 4♠x or perhaps 5♣x will prove best. This is a very bad decision noting that junky 4 card suit.

 

The following thoughts should be going through South's mind when considering the daft 3♠ bid.

 

1) Perhaps the opps aren't bidding game.

 

2) Perhaps declarer will miss guess the trumps or ♦ if south properly uses the green card and doesn't help the opps play the hand.

 

3) What happens when pd doesn't have 4♠ and perhaps 3♠x could even be ugly..will I just pull and play 4♣x?

4) What will I do if pd thinks that I have more than I do for my 3♠ call and doubles 4♥? When you take dubious actions and don't have the hand you advertise you may have to deal with a pd who's X'd them.

 

South's decision to pull 4♥x is also awful. For all he knows 4♥x can't make or 5♣x goes for 800 or 1100.

 

I don't at all care for north'd double of 4♥ as it waves even more a red flag in front of even a weak declarer to finesse him for red queens. He cannot expect a two trick set here and if he passes, perhaps a weak declarer goes down if left to his own devices. It is a disaster if the X turns +50 into -590.

 

Players who often bid like south are often wondering why their pd has found excuses to not play next week or even why they're not included in the next team game.

 

All south should be doing after this auction and disaster is appologizing A LOT. "Very sorry partner, I knew that I advertised a better hand and I simply panicked when you X'd them." Even though North's double is dubious, in no way should South criticize after his foolish bidding.

[the hog]

I'd bid 2C followed by 3S on Jxxxx x x AKQxxx.

 

I disagree with the hog, double was not fine at all. North has 0 tricks.

 

I can tell you now that if my pd held the South card's and bid like that the opponents were going down.. Anyway, who says I have 0 tricks?