straube Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 So in bidding practice, partner opens 1S with 5+S and 10-15. My choices seem to be... 1) GF artificial relay with 2C2) sign off in 4S3) splinter Systemically, I can't show diamonds. I chose to splinter. Interested in what others would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Isn't one of the reasons you play relays is to get to slam across from AKxxx AJx xx xxx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Can't even bid 2D then catch-up in spades later? If not, then I'll go for "GF artificial relay with 2C". ahydra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Isn't one of the reasons you play relays is to get to slam across from AKxxx AJx xx xxx? Good luck designing a relay system where you can find shape and honors up to jacks below 4S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Good luck designing a relay system where you can find shape and honors up to jacks below 4S. Then I assume we can get controls and shape under 4♠? I'd still go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Hard to know without actually knowing your very unusual system. This does not seem to be a tell hand, though, it appears to be a hand that needs to ask specific information from partner - IE, you know slam is good if partner has AKQ of spades and a heart control, or some other combinations. Try and make bids that will elicit that information from partner, since you cannot make any bids that will actually describe your hand reasonably enough to have partner make an intelligent decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 I can't answer this without knowing more about the relay. For example, opposite AKxxx AKJx x xxx, we'd want to be in 7♦ :P I suspect that going the full relay will mean committing to at least 5♠ if we find the spade AK and the heart A, regardless of shape. Having played a relay method, I know that one of the issues is that partner's responses, with extreme shape, usually have to be very space consuming..... Does the relay go shape, then controls, then location of cards? Do we always define exact shape, and how many relays are needed? Can we skip exact shape to got to controls? How do we show location? How do we break the relay, and what inferences are available to opener when we do? Based on what I know, I'd at least start with the relay. BTW, while I ask all these questions, I am not inviting a detailed reply....I have zero interest in your actual system, since I don't plan on playing a big club anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted May 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Isn't one of the reasons you play relays is to get to slam across from AKxxx AJx xx xxx? Yeah, but that example hand has 8 QPs (A=3, K=2, Q=1) and I have only 7 QPs for a total of 15 out of 24 QPs. Partner could potentially have Jxxxx xxx x AKQJ and open 1S. I don't know of a relay system that could disambiguate this before 4S has been passed. One needs more stuff. On this hand, I want to tell partner 1) source of tricks 2) void and 3) fit but have no good way to do so. I listed 2C GF relay, but I don't care for that. I think I'd get more info out of RKC (and that's more obviously poor). For me the choice is between a splinter (lying about trump support) or giving up and bidding 4S (partner doesn't have the cards I need). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Then I assume we can get controls and shape under 4♠? How does that help you? You gave partner zero points in clubs, no way you can know close to that with relays unless it is much too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 How does that help you? You gave partner zero points in clubs, no way you can know close to that with relays unless it is much too late. True - maybe one round of denial cue bidding could tell us no club wastage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Systemically, I can't show diamonds. Really? This may be the system flaw of all time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted May 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Really? This may be the system flaw of all time. I don't count it as such. We have pretty much the same problem with other relayers who start 1C (16+) and then partner starts to show a potentially 5332 hand...which sucks when opener has a distributional hand. I know that some play early relay breaks to show a void. Is anyone familiar with how that works? That would be 1S-2C, 2D-break...but I don't know the continuations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statto Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Fit jump / strong single suit with 3♦? This hand almost seems to fall into both categories... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I don't count it as such. We have pretty much the same problem with other relayers who start 1C (16+) and then partner starts to show a potentially 5332 hand...which sucks when opener has a distributional hand. I know that some play early relay breaks to show a void. Is anyone familiar with how that works? That would be 1S-2C, 2D-break...but I don't know the continuations. Make the continuations up yourself. There is not a lot published about relay breaks. We did the following: 1C 1H Shows S)break - now showed the suit that responder bid, not showed. It also showed a min C opening. This doesn't help you much though.You could also hit one relay and then set S at a low level with KC eg1S 2C2D 2S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted May 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Yeah. It's been evolving. See my thread in the nonnatural system on relay breaks. It would be nice to perfect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I would relay, we might belong to 3NT!. Even if you relay first it doesn´t mean you cannot break does it?, in my system after 2♣ I can bid GF 3 diamonds, I have another option using keycard for spades and then showing the void but that would most likelly end up at the 5 level so its worse than splinter. For me the perfect hand is not AK of hearts, its AKQ of spades with singleton heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petterb Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I chose to splinter.A splinter over a 1M opening should deliver at least 4-card support. It's impossible for opener to judge how to proceed if it can be done with only 3-card support. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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