Hanoi5 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 [hv=pc=n&w=s73hqjt632dkj7cj7&e=saqt6hd832ckqt543&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1d2cd2hd2sp3hd4cdppp]266|200[/hv] Is 2♥ too much?Is Pass after the double of 2♥ a viable option?Should West realize what's going on and bid 3♣? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Maybe. No. Probably. East clearly has the black suits. Why didn't he make a Michaels cue bid? Several possible reasons, none of them good from West's point of view. East's hand is perfect for a top and bottom cue bid, if only they were playing that method. Opposite a top and bottom cue, West might bid 2♥, East should retreat to 3♣, and West should pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 West bid his heart suit. That is fine. When East bids spades, West should retreat to clubs. Jx is not terrible. But rebidding QJTxxx at the 3 level opposite what appears to be a black suited hand is a recipe for disaster. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 No, no and yes. Actually I am just agreeing with Art. The East hand might be good for a Raptor 1NT overcall but not so sure about being perfect for Top&Bottom. The West hand is worth no more than one try. Rebidding 3♥ here shows a better hand in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 How is this the fault of not playing a convention? West was DOUBLED IN 2H AND THEN WENT TO 3H WITH JX OF HIS PARTNERS FIRST SUIT. East should definitely pass 3HX also since his partner's jack of clubs should be the 9 of hearts for the rebid here. But maybe with this partner bidding is ok? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 When I posted above, I did not realize that the 2♥ call was doubled FOR PENALTY. That makes the 3♥ call sheer insanity. As I said, there is nothing wrong with the 2♥ call, but, in the face of black suit bidding by East, West should bid 3♣ EVEN WITHOUT THE PENALTY DOUBLE OF 2♥. To bid 3♥ after 2♥ was doubled for penalty is sheer madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Are we sure the X of 2H is for penalty? I'd play it as takeout. I guess it doesn't matter either way since West really should bid 3C not 3H. ahydra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 How is this the fault of not playing a convention? West was DOUBLED IN 2H AND THEN WENT TO 3H WITH JX OF HIS PARTNERS FIRST SUIT. East should definitely pass 3HX also since his partner's jack of clubs should be the 9 of hearts for the rebid here. But maybe with this partner bidding is ok? If you're referring to my mention of Top and Bottom cues, I didn't say anything about fault. All I said was the hand is perfect for it. Either way, of course West should bid 3♣ over 2♠ or 2♥X, whichever came back to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Are we sure the X of 2H is for penalty? I'd play it as takeout. I guess it doesn't matter either way since West really should bid 3C not 3H. ahydraI am curious. Why would you play the double of 2♥ for takeout? There is only one unbid suit. It would seem that you would either bid it (spades), rebid your own suit, bid NT, pass or double for penalties. There doesn't seem to be any reason to double for takeout here, unless you are catering to a hand with extra values, no spade suit, not enough to rebid your suit and not good enough to bid 2NT. Seems like a pretty small target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 What lalldonn said, including the caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkham Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 I think North's double of 2♥ is for penalties. With that many suits already bid (including South implying majors with his double) it's got to be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 What lalldonn said, including the caps. Agree. (Does an "X" denote a higher spot than an "x"?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 The 3♥ rebid here is extremely bad to put it politely. Clearly west didn't listen to any part of this auction. Failure to take a preference back to 3♣, the suit that PD made a 2 level overcall in, is sickening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Agree with everyone that 3♥ is bad. Maybe east can help though. With the possible misfit and the negative double on his left, perhaps he could put on the brakes with 3♣ instead of 2♠. Maybe not best, but possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Agree with everyone that 3♥ is bad. Maybe east can help though. With the possible misfit and the negative double on his left, perhaps he could put on the brakes with 3♣ instead of 2♠. Maybe not best, but possible?Put the breaks on? East has a fine hand if there is a fit. Change West's hand to Jxxx Axxxxx x Jx. Now where do you want to play it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 If you're referring to my mention of Top and Bottom cues, I didn't say anything about fault. All I said was the hand is perfect for it. Either way, of course West should bid 3♣ over 2♠ or 2♥X, whichever came back to him.I don't know why west would bid 3C if 2HX came back to him. What would be wrong with that contract if partner has decided to leave it there? Running with QJTxxx would be bizarre. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 I am just not sure why this is interesting, except from a developmental sciences perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I think North's double of 2♥ is for penalties. With that many suits already bid (including South implying majors with his double) it's got to be. Interesting question for our partnership then! Kx xxx AKxxx KQx 1D-(2C)-X-(2H)? We play the negX as showing at least one major. What is one meant to do with this hand (playing weak NT)? You could fake a 2NT bid with no heart stop, I guess - but nothing else looks attractive. Hence I like to use the X here as showing a strong-NT-type hand without a stop - of course, if partner does have hearts for his X, he's welcome to pass / bid NT. ahydra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Interesting question for our partnership then! Kx xxx AKxxx KQx 1D-(2C)-X-(2H)? We play the negX as showing at least one major. What is one meant to do with this hand (playing weak NT)? You could fake a 2NT bid with no heart stop, I guess - but nothing else looks attractive. Hence I like to use the X here as showing a strong-NT-type hand without a stop - of course, if partner does have hearts for his X, he's welcome to pass / bid NT. ahydraHow about pass? You don't have spades. You don't have a 2NT call. You don't have a strong enough diamond suit to bid it again, and you don't have enough in the way of extras to force to game. So pass. Double doesn't always mean I don't have a suitable call. Sometimes pass means that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 But then, how does partner tell the difference between that hand and A xxx QJxxxx KJx? Plus, he's not going to re-open with a minimum negative X, and we let them play 2H-1 (maybe even making) when we make 3D, not good. I reckon X is currently underused as a general competitive bid. ahydra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I assume 2 ♥ is non forcing competitive as it seems a tad weak for 2 ♥ forcing. 2 ♥ non-forcing seems OK to me. After overcaller bids 2 ♠, West should simply preference back to 3 ♣. East has not used Michaels and is unlikely to hold a 5-5 or better hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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