A Bad Slam ATB

[fuburules3]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq972hkjt8dakq8cq&n=sat8ha2d643cakj85&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1d2h3cp3hp3np4np6dppp]266|200[/hv]

 

IMPS. 6D in the 4-3 fit was not the winning spot. What do you think of the bidding?

 

Secondary questions:

What does 3♥ versus 3♠ by S show in this sequence? What strength does N's 3NT show? How about 4NT? Over 4NT, what do N's bids at the 5/6 level show?

[mgoetze]

What does 3♥ versus 3♠ by S show in this sequence?

3♥, in my world, shows either a club raise or a hand lacking a heart stopper, by which I don't necessarily mean it's a two-way bid, I mean you could agree either of these. So obviously not what South actually has. 3♠ shows 4 spades, implying but not promising 5+ diamonds. I think South's real choices on the second round are 3NT and 4NT. 4NT would tend to show 18-19, but then 3NT would imply (but not promise) 12-14, so a slight overbid may be in order. The ♣Q can be counted as full 2 points after partner's 3♣ bid.

 

The other questionable bid in this auction is North's 6♦, rather than 6NT. But since I have no idea what 3♥ is supposed to mean it's hard to judge this.

[ahydra]

Yes I'm not sure I get the 3H bid, unless it showed a stop in hearts. But most people play it as asking for a heart stop, in which case I think 3S is better.

 

The rest of the auction is perfectly sane up until 6D, which is bordering on silly. If North wanted to offer choice of slams he should probably bid 6C with that excellent suit, but to be honest he should just bid 6NT.

 

What does 3♥ versus 3♠ by S show in this sequence? What strength does N's 3NT show? How about 4NT? Over 4NT, what do N's bids at the 5/6 level show?

 

I'd play 3S as natural and 3NT sort of 12-16/17 ish. So 4NT is a slam invite with about a good 16 to bad 18. Then you can make up whatever meanings you like for 5/6 level bids. I like 6x = choice of slams and 5x = show a trick source / ask for help there (pick one).

 

ahydra

[mike777]

1nt=6nt seems easy enough dont get alot of the rest of the bidding.

[aguahombre]

3♥, in my world, shows either a club raise or a hand lacking a heart stopper, by which I don't necessarily mean it's a two-way bid, I mean you could agree either of these. So obviously not what South actually has. 3♠ shows 4 spades, implying but not promising 5+ diamonds. I think South's real choices on the second round are 3NT and 4NT. 4NT would tend to show 18-19, but then 3NT would imply (but not promise) 12-14, so a slight overbid may be in order. The ♣Q can be counted as full 2 points after partner's 3♣ bid.

This seems about right. Of the choices presented other than 3H (ugh), I also prefer 4NT quantitative. Opener can foresee the confusion which might follow after 3S (which aint that great a suit, anyway).

 

The other questionable bid in this auction is North's 6♦, rather than 6NT. But since I have no idea what 3♥ is supposed to mean it's hard to judge this.

North probably had no idea what 3H was supposed to mean, in context of the continuation, either :rolleyes:

[neilkaz]

Blame 100%+ to North. Just what about this auction where South has likely asked for a stop for NT and then finding said stop which upgrades his ♥ quant raised to 4NT imply interest in a ♦ slam opposite three small?

 

6♦ is quite daft. .. neilkaz ..

[fuburules3]

The postmortem was as follows:

 

S was unsure if 4NT would be interpreted as quantitative (it wouldn't be keycard so N probably would get it right), thought that bidding 3S with KJ108 of hearts might miss the normal 3NT game and that 3NT would understate values. Playing no special kind of keycard (e.g. minorwood), 4NT over 3C should be quant (and to ask for keycards another sequence is needed?)?

 

Over 4NT, N was worried there was only one heart stop and 6NT would not play well on a heart lead. S thought N was insane for bidding 6D with only 3 of them. N didn't disagree, but thought S should pull 6D with actual hand.

 

The main reason I'm curious about the 3♥ versus 3♠ bids is that it seems like a much more common situation would be trying to find 3NT when both N and S have partial stoppers or right siding 3NT when S has something like Qx and N has something like Ax. We would not have been able to handle either situation.

[rmnka447]

Frankly, South should bid 3 NT with the opening hand after the 3 ♣ bid by North. Holding ♥ KJ108 certainly makes NT seem like the right strain. Additionally, the stiff ♣ Q seems like a flaw opposite partner's known ♣s. North is also unlikely to hold 4 ♠s because no negative double was made.

 

In this hand, North happens to hold the ♥ A. But most of the time, North is unlikely to hold a ♥ stopper, so if South doesn't bid NT, how will the partnership get to NT?

 

North should take into consideration that South might need to bid 3 NT with a wide range of values holding a ♥ stopper or stoppers. So, North ought to invite slam by raising 3 NT to 4 NT. South, of course, with 17, will be more than happy to accept.

 

On the actual hand, after North's 3 NT bid after South's reverse, South would return to ♦ if the hand was an unbalanced hand with longer ♦s. So North should simply pass or bid 6 NT.