Minors over 2NT

[32519]

Assuming a standard framework where over 2NT you play some sort of Stayman and Transfers what set of agreements do you use for minor suit oriented hands like North?

 

I am interested in the following questions:

1. How do you differentiate single suiters in the minors from minor two suiters?

2. Where (important at matchpoints) and how do you stop when North majors would have been reversed?

 

The "minor suit stayman" method is much superior.

 

1. You haven't addressed the rest of Rainer's issues with this hand; "How do you differentiate single suiters in the minors from minor two suiters?"

2. MSS works here because opener had a 4-card minor. What do you do when opener is 4432 or 4423?

3. How do you sign off in 4m with a minor suit bust?

[awm]

1. One suited minor hands start with 3c. The 3s bid shows both minors.

 

2. Grand slam is much less likely if opener has no 4m. But I'd have the choice of 4d (longer suit) or 4s (shortage with 5/5). I'm at least as well placed as anyone else here.

 

3. I don't sign off in 4m when partner bids 2nt. I bid 3nt. It will make often, and when it doesn't 4m will often fail. This is different from over 1nt where we may have less overall strength and there is more room to explore.

[Fluffy]

After minor suit stayman I think 5♠ is better than 4♠+5♠

 

Anyway I don't play minor suit stayman, I play something similar but the answers differ a bit:

 

2NT-3♠ interest in the minros and now:

 

3NT= I have too many honnors or cards in the majors to colaborate, I wanna play 3NT

4♣= I accept playing on a minor (3-3 minors is possible)

4♦= I accept playing on a minor but I have strong preference for diamonds.

4♥= 4-4 minors (didn't discuss follow ups)

 

after 2NT-3♠-4NT responder bids 5+ card suit he is intrested anyway to play on. After 2Nt-3♠-4♣ clubs are implied unless responder bids 4♦ now

[whereagles]

I've been using this convention, which I picked up from Forrester's TRS system:

 

2NT 3♠ = transfer to 3NT. To play there (2NT-3NT being baron) or minor suit slam tries.

 

2NT 3♠

3NT ..??

 

4♣ = 5 clubs + 4 diamonds. Opener bids 4D fit; 4M cue and club fit; 4NT = NO FIT.

4♦ = 5 diamonds + 4 clubs. Opener bids 4M fit in corresponding minor; 4NT = NO FIT.

4M = 6 of corresponding minor. Opener bids 4NT to play; 5m not interested; 1st free step RKCB.

4NT = 55m, slam invite but NF. Opener bid 5/6m to play.

5♣ = 55m, slam forcing. Opener bids 5D 6AB; 5M preference for linked minor; 6m = no interest in grand.

 

6AB: six ace blackwood (4 aces + minor Ks). Responses 0-3, 1-4, 2 + no Qs, 2 + CQ, etc.

[Zelandakh]

I prefer 3♠ as minors or diamonds, and 4♣ directly over 2NT as single suited clubs. This means that opener will rebid 4♦ setting trumps on this hand. If you play 3♠ as minors or clubs you can't do this. So we are in a cue bidding sequence after 4♦. Responder's 4♠ denies a heart control and therefore opener's 5♣ shows one. You will confidently reach at least 6♦ after that.

Out of interest why do you prefer 3♠ for diamonds and 4♣ for clubs rather than the reverse, which not only has better right-siding but also assigns the space more efficiently? This (reverse structure) is basically the system I described earlier. It might be even better to use 2NT - 3NT as clubs and then 2NT - 3♠ is specifically either to play 3NT or both minors and slam interest. However I have enough system to remember already without the fear of failing the Beer convention test for such a minimal gain.

 

 

What this thread hasn’t addressed yet is 5/5 in the minors and a bust. How do you sign off in 4 of either minor with a bust?

If you really feel the need for such a hand then you could include it as: 2NT - 3♠; 3NT - 4NT in the structure I gave before. Another (probably better) option is be to channel your quantitative slam invite through 4♠ (can double as Baron) and use 2NT - 4NT for this purpose. As for signing off in 4 of a minor, this seems like a pretty bad idea. We have to take 2 extra tricks against 2NT and the target is so small as to be virtually non-existent. As Adam suggests, I would think there are more candidate hands where we can make 9 tricks in NT than where we make 7 of fewer in NT and exactly 10 in a minor.

[32519]

As for signing off in 4 of a minor, this seems like a pretty bad idea. We have to take 2 extra tricks against 2NT and the target is so small as to be virtually non-existent. As Adam suggests, I would think there are more candidate hands where we can make 9 tricks in NT than where we make 7 of fewer in NT and exactly 10 in a minor.

 

Zel

 

My guess is that you are spot on here. With 0-2 HCP, the 2NT bid is getting passed out. With 3-4 HCP, the adventuress are lifting it to 3NT and hoping for the best. I don't have any problems with this approach for the average club/tournament player. But what do top flight players do? Say as responder you are dealt a 7-card minor and zero HCP. With no entry to the hand, wouldn't you want to be in 4 of the minor instead of 2NT?

 

At MP, taking 10 tricks in a minor scores 130 where 2NT taking 8 tricks scores 120.

[Finch]

We prefer responder to describe rather than ask, so we play

 

2NT -

3♠ = sign-off in 3NT or diamonds*

3NT = clubs*

[4m = slam try in linked major]

4♥ = clubs**

4♠ = diamonds**

 

*Either a 5332 quantitative slam try, a minimum 6322, or a two-suiter (or if responder has clubs, a hand that knows what the final contract is but wants partner to declarer it)

**Single-suiter, 6+ cards

 

Over 4♥ opener bids 4♠ keycard for clubs, 4NT an unsuitable hand, 5♣ slam interest but not enough to drive. Similarly over 4♠

Opener must complete the 3-level transfers, and now responder bids:

- 4NT invitational usually 5332

- suits are transfers, showing a 2-suited slam try e.g. 2NT-3NT-4C- 4D = hearts, 4H = spades, 4S = minors, longer clubs. Opener completes to the major to agree the suit, bids 4NT sign-off, anything else agrees the minor (transferring to diamonds & bidding clubs is natural)

 

This hand is easy if responder decides to show the spade void once opener shows slam interest: 2NT-3S (diamonds/sign-off) - 3NT - 4C (both minors, longer diamonds) - 4D (slam interest with diamond support) - 5S - 7D. Opener is super-huge opposite both minors and a spade void.

 

If responder goes more slowly it becomes slightly more guessy: 2NT-3S-3NT-4C-4D-4S (cue)-5C (cue) - 5S -.... now I'd like to bid 5NT rolling but we play this as grand slam force, opener will be worried about something like singleton SA opposite, which means fewer high cards in the minors (A x A10xxxx QJxxx is a pretty big hand and grand is on the club finesse).

 

With one or two 4-card minors we start with 3♣, continuations depend on who has what major suits.

 

 

I have no interest in being able to sign off in 4m, although technically in our system responder could pass after 2NT-3NT-4C. He never does.