takeout double then raise after preempt

[Stephen Tu]

[hv=s=SQ9862HQJ7642DCAK&wn=Robot&w=ST4H9DAQJ9742C987&nn=Robot&n=S75HKT53DKT8CJ432&en=Robot&e=SAKJ3HA8D653CQT65&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=3D(Preempt -- 7+ D%3B 9- HCP%3B 5+ 8421 HCP in D%3B 6+ total points)PPD(Takeout double -- 3-5 C%3B 2- D%3B 3-4 H%3B 3-)P3H(4+ H%3B 20- total points)4D(1+ D%3B 17- total points)4H(3-5 C%3B 2- D%3B 4 H%3B 3-4 S%3B 25+ total point)P4N(Blackwood %5BH%5D -- 4+ H%3B 8-20 total points)P5D(One or four key cards -- 3-5 C%3B 2- D%3B 4)P5S(%3F queen -- 4+ H%3B 8-20 total points)P5N(queen. No lower kings -- 3-5 C%3B 2- D%3B 4)P6H(Signoff -- 4+ H%3B 8-20 total points)PPP]400|300[/hv]

 

This auction was repeated by a bunch of humans sitting south (not me!), who made a rather poor choice to takeout double vs. say 4d.

But I feel like they should get away with it,except for some poor definitions of continuations here:

1. 3h says 20- total points. Should be limited, maybe 9- total points?

2. 4h defined as 25+ total points causing North to go berzerk w/ blkwood. Another one of those unrealistic 25+ pt auctions. Is there some default rule that says you have to have game in hand if partner might be broke? It has to be modified after enemy preempts to give partner a default 7-8 points or so. I think 17+ pts is more realistic, and North should assume 17-22 and never explore slam.

 

BTW GIB as south balances with 3h, is 4d in the database as majors? Surely it should be considered, I would definitely bid it. If it's not strong enough I'd relax the restrictions somewhat, I think it's too hard to bid 2 suiters in the majors otherwise.

[Bbradley62]

BTW GIB as south balances with 3h, is 4d in the database as majors? Surely it should be considered, I would definitely bid it. If it's not strong enough I'd relax the restrictions somewhat, I think it's too hard to bid 2 suiters in the majors otherwise.

[hv=lin=pn|deanna269,~~M868k3du,~~M3936sby,~~M5930h8q|st%7C%7Cmd%7C2S2689QH2467JQDCKA%2CS4TH9D2479JQAC789%2CS57H35TKD8TKC234J%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%204%7Csv%7Cb%7Cmb%7C3D%7Can%7CPreempt%20--%207%2B%20D%3B%209-%20HCP%3B%205%2B%208421%20HCP%20in%20D%3B%206%2B%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4D%7Can%7CStrong%20two%20suiter%20--%204-%20losers%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4H%7Can%7CNew%20suit%20forced%20--%203%2B%20H%3B%2020-%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CCA%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CCQ%7C]360|270[/hv]

[nathan2008]

[hv=s=SQ9862HQJ7642DCAK&wn=Robot&w=ST4H9DAQJ9742C987&nn=Robot&n=S75HKT53DKT8CJ432&en=Robot&e=SAKJ3HA8D653CQT65&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=3D(Preempt -- 7+ D%3B 9- HCP%3B 5+ 8421 HCP in D%3B 6+ total points)PPD(Takeout double -- 3-5 C%3B 2- D%3B 3-4 H%3B 3-)P3H(4+ H%3B 20- total points)4D(1+ D%3B 17- total points)4H(3-5 C%3B 2- D%3B 4 H%3B 3-4 S%3B 25+ total point)P4N(Blackwood %5BH%5D -- 4+ H%3B 8-20 total points)P5D(One or four key cards -- 3-5 C%3B 2- D%3B 4)P5S(%3F queen -- 4+ H%3B 8-20 total points)P5N(queen. No lower kings -- 3-5 C%3B 2- D%3B 4)P6H(Signoff -- 4+ H%3B 8-20 total points)PPP]400|300[/hv]

 

 

BTW GIB as south balances with 3h, is 4d in the database as majors? Surely it should be considered, I would definitely bid it. If it's not strong enough I'd relax the restrictions somewhat, I think it's too hard to bid 2 suiters in the majors otherwise.

 

Normal... If u make a t/o double and rebid the suit, it is in general 25+ for GIB lol. So please pay attention to your X lol. I find that in general GIB is weak after a t/o double. You will always lose your way. If it is best hand style, i will bid 4h because pd can't have 0 points.

[Stephen Tu]

Normal... If u make a t/o double and rebid the suit, it is in general 25+ for GIB lol. So please pay attention to your X lol. I find that in general GIB is weak after a t/o double. You will always lose your way. If it is best hand style, i will bid 4h because pd can't have 0 points.

 

The idea behind bug reports in this forum is to make this kind of bidding NOT the norm for GIB any longer. We want GIB to bid like a normal mainstream advanced/expert player as much as possible, which will make it a more worthy opponent, and a better practice and learning tool for BBO members It's not so much a "discuss strategy to deal with GIB's idiosyncrasies" forum, though you can discuss those things in a separate thread if you wish. Your comment is not all that relevant to this thread; we already know GIB has problems like this, we are trying to draw attention to specific ones so the developers fix them.

 

It would be nice to comb through the DB and look for rules that trigger 25+ and 21+ type descriptions, and see if they can be adjusted to assume extra long suits, instead of absurd #s of HCP. Except for the precious few sequences after 2c openers that actually show that many HCP.

 

Also, is it documented anywhere the evaluation function for GIB, how it counts total points currently? Seems like it could reasonably be tweaked, if it's still just HCP + 3/2/1 for shortness points as in the bidding descriptions thread.