2/1 question

[Quantumcat]

It makes sense that in the auction:

 

1♥ 1NT

2♣ 2♦

3♣

 

Opener shows a good hand (invite to game) since you shouldn't correct one partscore to another.

 

But what about:

 

1♥ 1NT

2♣ 2NT

3♣

 

Does this show a very weak hand, trying to get out of 2NT? Or does it show a good hand (like the first auction), exploring for the right contract?

 

And also, what about:

 

1♥ 1NT

2♣ 2♦

2♥

 

Does this show a good hand, same as the first auction, since you shouldn't correct one partscore to another?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

#2 This showes a 55 hand, and says, p we are better of in on of my suits.

Responder described his hand, and opener may well know, that the partnership

may just have 3-4 spades between them, i.e. they have 8-9 spades.

 

#3 This just showes 6-4, a diamond singleton, unless you play that a direct 2H

would show 6+, if this is the case, than it makes sense to play the givem auction

as showing add. values.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[aguahombre]

Yes. These are all questions you and your partner should resolve. IMO, nobody can answer these for your partnership, because they are dependent on other things ---such as when you will rebid 2C with 6-4 in the rounded suits, for instance.

 

You also need to work out the meaning of the "impossible 2S" rebid by responder in order to choose what are the best uses for opener's third bid.

 

Edit: it also depends on what 2D means in those auctions, which is in-turn dependent on what 3D would have meant on the first round. 2D can even be an artificial toy.

Edited April 13, 2012 by aguahombre

[han]

Aquahombre is partly right, it's most important to have good agreements about these auctions. However, that doesn't mean that there isn't an optimal answer.

 

Your statement that you shouldn't correct one partscore to another is of course terribly wrong. I very much like to correct bad partscores to good partscores. When I open 1H with xx AQJ10x x KJ10xx and the auction goes

 

1H - 1NT

2C - 2NT

 

then I think that 3C makes far more often then 2NT. Partner will very often have 3 clubs (in fact, if he does not then he pretty much must have a 3-2-6-2 shape) and may well have 4.

 

Moreover, we don't need 3C to be forcing as there are other forcing bids available. I think Justin proposed somewhere in his blog that you can play:

 

3C = NF

3D = 5-5 forcing

3H = to play

3S = 6-4 forcing

 

You give up on showing a diamond or spade fragment, but I think that you gain much more.

 

Your first auction is very different though. Partner likely has 6 or more diamonds, so when we are 5-5 in the rounded suits we really don't know if clubs plays better than diamonds. Perhaps if we were 6-6, yes then we would like to insists on clubs or hearts. But those hands rarely happen, and when they do the opponents invariably bid spades. It seems more useful to let 3C show a strong hand, and to either pass or bid 2H with a minimal highly distributional hand.

 

So that brings us to your third auction. I believe that this auction is traditionally played as showing extras, but it also makes sense to bid this with minimal 6-5 hands. And will you stop saying that you shouldn't correct one partscore to another? Just think about it, it doesn't make any sense!

[Quantumcat]

Your statement that you shouldn't correct one partscore to another is of course terribly wrong.

I meant trump partscores. For example 1♥ 1♠ 2♥ 2♠. You wouldn't bid 2NT or 3♥ just because you have a singleton or void spade (although you might bid 2NT with a 15 or 16 count, if you played weak jump shifts, so you'd know partner had a few values for 1♠ 2♠ ... although that would be to invite game, not to escape what you think is a bad partscore.)

But no trumps is different. If you have a misfit and not many points you will be better off in a trump suit. That's why I thought 1♥ 1NT 2♣ 2NT 3♣ was different to 1♥ 1NT 2♣ 2♦ 3♣.

 

Also your suggestion of artificial second rebids - I don't think that's a good idea. I've had this auction before:

 

1♠ 1NT

2♦ 2NT

3♥ 4♥

 

I had a bad five card heart suit and a club stopper, so though it more important to bid 2NT instead of 3♥ with my 11-count, in case partner was stuck for a bid after 3♥. Partner showed his 3-card heart suit which I was happy to hear about.

 

And this one:

 

1♥ 1NT

2♣ 2NT

3♦ 3♥

4♥

 

I had a singleton spade and a 16-count, and bid out my shape since I saw no reason not to. Partner had Qxx in spades so we played in the making 5-2 heart fit instead of the doomed 3NT.

[JLOGIC]

I meant trump partscores. For example 1♥ 1♠ 2♥ 2♠. You wouldn't bid 2NT or 3♥ just because you have a singleton or void spade

 

Of course you would bid 3H if you had a void in spades and 7 good hearts and a minimum. It's a partscore auction, making 3H instead of going down possibly several in 2S is worth a lot of imps. This is a good example of what han is saying, thanks.