Three voids

[nige1]

Vul vs not vul, in 1st seat, holding: ♠ QJTxxxxx ♥ - ♦ - ♣ JTxxx, what do you open? Please give marks out of 10 to Pass, 1♠, 2♠, 3♠, 4♠, other. (Please assume that 3N is gambling with a minor and that 4 bids are natural pre-empts).

[Bbradley62]

Either 4♠ or pass, depending on form of scoring and/or my mood...

[aguahombre]

When no bid fits, I often try no bid. This will bring me at odds with the school of thought that we should always be "doing something", but oh well.

[the_clown]

I would bid 4♠. Partner knows that my preempts are far from solid, so he will not get too excited.

[CSGibson]

4♠=10 all else = 0

[lalldonn]

4♠ definitely gets a 10. I guess 3♠ is the next best bid? It feels like it deserves a 1.5 or so. 2♠ and 1♠ and pass all get 0 from me.

[HighLow21]

4♠=10, Pass (intending to bid some number of spades later)=9, 3♠=8, 2♠=0, 1♠=-10.

 

You have a 5-loser hand, the opponents are unlikely to double you because of a spade stack, and if partner has anything in the blacks you might make 4♠X when 6 or 7 of a red suit is on for them.

 

This is not a preempt in my mind as much as a gambling bid: gambling because a lot of the time I'll make the contract and get doubled and make a gigantic swing.

 

I like 4♠ better at IMPs because it's a fairly safe bid and also a fairly profitable bid on an expectation basis. To me the only major negatives are when partner has a ton of red points, or when partner is short spades and they are ruffing partner's high clubs (e.g., 5♣ making with 4♠ in the toilet.

 

Also, technically, this is 2 voids rather than 3. A 3-void hand has a guaranteed grand slam. ;-)

[akhare]

4♠ gets the Bo Derek treatment B-) -- with this shape, check vulnerability at the door.

[benlessard]

Playing Namyats im happy to open 4S. If not however I prefer 3S to 4S at this vul/nV.

 

4Sx can easily go for -800, also partner will often raise to 6S and we will have no play. I really hate pass,1S,2S

[the hog]

4S. This is worth 10. All else is a 0 for me.

[aguahombre]

I am much more consistent at predicting the majority action than taking the majority action.

[fuburules3]

Well at least one well-known expert thinks you would have to be practically brain dead to open this 3S (which is perhaps the reason this thread exists).

[mikl_plkcc]

pass, then 4S

 

I'm afraid that bidding 4S will get an immediate raise of 6S by partner. Also, passing out this hand is not a bad thing, especially 4S may not be made. However, once the opponents come in, the situation becomes clear. I will bid 4S to shut their hearts game out.

[nige1]

Well at least one well-known expert thinks you would have to be practically brain dead to open this 3S (which is perhaps the reason this thread exists).

 

When I suggested this hand as a possible 3♠ opener, my friend, Michael Rosenberg opined "if you open three spades on 8-0-0-5 you have THREE voids - two in your hand, and one in your head." :), On reflection, he may be right, again :(

[Cthulhu D]

pass, then 4S

 

I'm afraid that bidding 4S will get an immediate raise of 6S by partner. Also, passing out this hand is not a bad thing, especially 4S may not be made. However, once the opponents come in, the situation becomes clear. I will bid 4S to shut their hearts game out.

 

Not sure 4S at your second turn will achieve this. Giving the hand to Wbridge5 and coming in with 4S on a number of random deals for the remaining hands, they always find 5 of a red suit which is usually the par score. Bidding 4S on the first turn doesn't always achieve this on the same deals, but has a high success rate.

 

If 5H/D is going off, 4S is making.

 

Sample size is only 15 though so I may be wrong.

[Fluffy]

at my local club they open this 2♣ because they misscount only 4 losers.

[Quantumcat]

Are there five suits? (Post title)

[aguahombre]

Are there five suits? (Post title)

It is a reference to a comment by Michael Rosenberg in a Bridgewinners thread. The third void is in the head of the player who chooses a 3-level opening bid with an 8-0-0-5 hand.

[han]

4Sx can easily go for -800

 

I agree it can, but I disagree that it can easily. It would be quite unlucky.

 

I am much more consistent at predicting the majority action than taking the majority action.

 

If you know so well what the top players think, you could try to learn from it. Is that such a strange thought?

[sasioc]

I've seen this sort of hand a couple of times before and experts have always told me that they think 4♠ is the only bid. I haven't gone wrong following this advice yet (although obviously haven't had many chances to put it into practice!)

[aguahombre]

If you know so well what the top players think, you could try to learn from it. Is that such a strange thought?

I learn from what top players say, and from their thought processes when they choose to express them. That doesn't always lead to agreeing with them; but, perhaps these fora would be much more brief if those with different preemptive styles, different agreements, different ideas of whether partner should be in on what our bids mean, and therefore different answers just kept them to ourselves.

 

When I read "It's Your Call", and learn that 9 experts chose one action, and 8 chose a different one ---I have options about what I should "learn" from that:

 

--To go with the majority.

--To choose one action 9 out of the next 17 times, and the other one the rest.

--To actually read what the various experts have to say about their decision and weigh in whether their known style is compatible with ours.

[Statto]

pass, then 4S

 

I'm afraid that bidding 4S will get an immediate raise of 6S by partner. Also, passing out this hand is not a bad thing, especially 4S may not be made. However, once the opponents come in, the situation becomes clear. I will bid 4S to shut their hearts game out.

If I start with pass, I will be hoping to make a 2-suited call next round, not simply 4♠. However, there may not be one available that shows both black suits immediately which is what I would want. The best way to shut out opps ♥ (or ♦) game is to bid 4♠ now. But at unfavourable in 1st seat I don't like it with such poor suits, so would consider 3♠, then decide on 4♠ as I have absolutely no defence. 4♠=7, 3♠=5, Pass=5, 1♠=1, Others=0.

[Trinidad]

There are some players who think that a vulnerable 4♠ opening bid should promiss opening values.

 

I am not one of those players. In my book, a 4♠ opening bid is preemptive. If I have opening values, I will open 1♠. A 4♠ opening only shows:

- less than an opening

- a lot of spades

- that the person making the bid has a reason to believe that it won't be a disaster if the opponents simply double

 

Those conditions are met.

 

If my partner -who knows the above conditions- goes on to bid 6♠ (something at least one poster here is afraid of) I would say that there is a good chance that it will make.

 

Rik

[han]

I learn from what top players say, and from their thought processes when they choose to express them. That doesn't always lead to agreeing with them; but, perhaps these fora would be much more brief if those with different preemptive styles, different agreements, different ideas of whether partner should be in on what our bids mean, and therefore different answers just kept them to ourselves.

 

When I read "It's Your Call", and learn that 9 experts chose one action, and 8 chose a different one ---I have options about what I should "learn" from that:

 

--To go with the majority.

--To choose one action 9 out of the next 17 times, and the other one the rest.

--To actually read what the various experts have to say about their decision and weigh in whether their known style is compatible with ours.

 

And what do you do when the experts are unanimous, what do you learn from that?

[aguahombre]

And what do you do when the experts are unanimous, what do you learn from that?

When it happens, I will let you know.