stansllee Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 AS East You open 1♦ with:[hv=pc=n&e=saq6h4d9432cakqt7]133|100[/hv] the bidding went: East West1♦ 1♥2♣ 2♠2NT 3♦3NT 4NT What's the 4NT here? And are you happy with 3NT bid last round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 AS East You open 1♦ with:[hv=pc=n&e=saq6h4d9432cakqt7]133|100[/hv] the bidding went: East West1♦ 1♥2♣ 2♠2NT 3♦3NT 4NT What's the 4NT here? And are you happy with 3NT bid last round?FYP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 I hate it. I mean, I hate it. I really, really hate opening 1♦. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stansllee Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I hate it. I mean, I hate it. I really, really hate opening 1♦. Hate is a strong word But I really, really, really hope you can compromise 1♦ opening is to consider the rebid, not too far off the mark！ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Great start, huh? One Fixes the post without changing anything, and another complains about the conditions. You think someone will answer your question? I don't know what partner is doing, either, but RKC for diamonds would never occur to me. Am bidding 5C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Great start, huh? One Fixes the post without changing anything, He then fixed HIS post AFTER my post..... I'm passing 4NT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Put me into the camp that really hates the 1♦ opening bid. Having said that, how is responder supposed to bid RKCB in diamonds after first bidding his long heart suit? First, he bids 4th suit forcing, then he raises diamonds. He can't help it that opener bids 3NT. 4NT must be RKCB unless the partnership has a different method of bidding RKCB. If responder wanted to make a quantitative invite to 6NT, he could have done that over 2NT. By the way, in answer to your other question, am I happy with 3NT on the previous round? Happy may not be the right word. I am endplayed into bidding 3NT. That's what happens when you open xxxx instead of AKQTx. I am not making a slam-cooperative move like a 3♠ bid with a "trump" suit of xxxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I guess I should have added that, after dragging my feet for 2 rounds after the 4SF bid (failing to bid 3S after partner showed slammish for diamonds was a felony), there is no way I can pass 4NT. I have sounded like 11 when I really have a solid 15 ---all 15 working together. This is a mountain, compared to what I have shown thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stansllee Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Great start, huh? One Fixes the post without changing anything, and another complains about the conditions. You think someone will answer your question? I don't know what partner is doing, either, but RKC for diamonds would never occur to me. Am bidding 5C. was surprised to find misplant E / W, so hurriedly corrected, very sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stansllee Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 He then fixed HIS post AFTER my post..... I'm passing 4NT was surprised to find misplant E / W, so hurriedly corrected, very sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I don't think this hand should ever be opened 1 ♦. The hand has a perfectly rebiddable ♣ suit, so there's no need to start with those trashy ♦s. The only time it's right to open a 4 card ♦ suit instead of a 5 card ♣ suit with a minimum hand is where the ♣ are not rebiddable -- something like ♠ AQx ♥ x ♦ AKQx ♣ 10xxxx. Anyhow, 4 NT directly after a NT bid should be quantitative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menggq Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 It's supposed to be PRECISION sys on 1♦ openning bid.4N sd be RKCB cause 3♦ confirmed ♦ trump.By the way i'd like to say i dont like 1♦ openning bid but when u play PRECISION sys how do you handle this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stansllee Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Put me into the camp that really hates the 1♦ opening bid. Having said that, how is responder supposed to bid RKCB in diamonds after first bidding his long heart suit? First, he bids 4th suit forcing, then he raises diamonds. He can't help it that opener bids 3NT. 4NT must be RKCB unless the partnership has a different method of bidding RKCB. If responder wanted to make a quantitative invite to 6NT, he could have done that over 2NT. By the way, in answer to your other question, am I happy with 3NT on the previous round? Happy may not be the right word. I am endplayed into bidding 3NT. That's what happens when you open xxxx instead of AKQTx. I am not making a slam-cooperative move like a 3♠ bid with a "trump" suit of xxxx. Your analysis is very convincing, in particular, is identified after 4SF and trumps consent of 4NT is RKC. The following are two hands:[hv=pc=n&w=s4hkt962dakjt87c4&e=saq6h4d9432cakqt7]266|100[/hv] Over 4NT, partner bid 6NT (obviously play 4NT as quantitative!) North holding ♥AQJ By the way, over 3♦ if you want to make a slam-cooperative move, will u bid 3♥ or 3♠ with those holding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Your analysis is very convincing, in particular, is identified after 4SF and trumps consent of 4NT is RKC. The following are two hands:[hv=pc=n&w=s4hkt962dakjt87c4&e=saq6h4d9432cakqt7]266|100[/hv] Over 4NT, partner bid 6NT (obviously play 4NT as quantitative!) North holding ♥AQJ By the way, over 3♦ if you want to make a slam-cooperative move, will u bid 3♥ or 3♠ with those holding?3♠. My first cue bid is not a singleton in partner's suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stansllee Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 3♠. My first cue bid is not a singleton in partner's suit. As a result, I may have parked in the 5♦, because I have to worry about hearts may have 2 losers. The fact that partner bypass the hearts to cue-bid spades, and wrong side declare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Since suit agreement was at the 3-level, then 4D! becomes RKC ( not 4H ).So, 4NT was Quantitative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I have sounded like 11 when I really have a solid 15 ---all 15 working together. This is a mountain, compared to what I have shown thus far.Didn't 2N show extras, rather than a fast-arrival 3N? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 This feels like quantative. 3D nominally agreed diamonds, but opener could still have poor diamonds. If North bid a black suit over 3N for me that would be a cue agreeing diamonds. Since he didn't do that or bid 4d, and he can hardly have a slam try with no black suit controls, it follows that 4N should be quantative. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Since suit agreement was at the 3-level, then 4D! becomes RKC ( not 4H ).So, 4NT was Quantitative.That depends upon the partnership agreement. As a result, I may have parked in the 5♦, because I have to worry about hearts may have 2 losers. The fact that partner bypass the hearts to cue-bid spades, and wrong side declare!No. The diamond declarer was fixed with the opening bid. Choosing whether to cue bid hearts or spades first has no effect on the declarership. In diamonds, it doesn't matter which hand declares. Why would you ever want to play slam in notrump on this hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Didn't 2N show extras, rather than a fast-arrival 3N?No. Fast arrival jumps in NT are not a good idea, even if you like fast-arrival jumps in a suit. 2NT was mere pattern, staying out of responder's way so he could describe nature of his 4SF bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 To my way of thinking, 4NT should be quantitative. If responder wants to set ♦ as trumps, he should take 3NT out into 4♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 To my way of thinking, 4NT should be quantitative. If responder wants to set ♦ as trumps, he should take 3NT out into 4♦.As previously stated, 3D after 4SF already set diamonds as trumps, and opener should have bid 3S over that, rather than 3NT. So, this situation should not have occurred unless Opener was weaker (say, QJX X QXXX AQXXX). Responder's 4NT is still interested in slam opposite that crap, if he was listening to the mistaken 3NT bid. But, we don't have to set diamonds as trump twice in the same auction; and we certainly must have something available other than 4NT to ask for key cards. 4NT to ask how good our bad opening bid is, doesn't seem practical either. So, like I said, I don't know what 4NT could mean, but since I have shown a much weaker hand than I hold, I must do something over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_clown Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I would never open this 1♦ unless playing canape.How can I tell partner that I decided to open my shorter suit with 9 high instead of the suit where I have AKQ. The only thing we can achieve is to make partner lead the wrong suit. 4nt would be quantitative, if p has slam try in ♦, he would start with 4♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I would never open this 1♦ unless playing canape.How can I tell partner that I decided to open my shorter suit with 9 high instead of the suit where I have AKQ. The only thing we can achieve is to make partner lead the wrong suit. 4nt would be quantitative, if p has slam try in ♦, he would start with 4♦.He already bid fourth suit forcing and then diamonds. How many times does he have to raise diamonds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 In the French style 2nt rebid is min or very strong (very strong here is not possible), 3nt directly show two spades stopper and 15-17, its not perfect but its hard to find a good use for a direct 3Nt. Its strongly suggest a stiff or xx in partner suit. Here however its not perfect since that partner might have a stiff D and 5C/6C is there. However bidding 2NT with extras values and simply bidding 3NT the next round lead to some share of problems too. Anyway using 4Nt as keycard for minors is really bad in the long run and its something you should get rid of. 4D is 100% keycard for me since I much rather keycard low than care about cuebidding. On this hand i would simply bid 6C suggesting that 6C in 5-3 (even 52) will play better than 4-4 in D. (I might pitch slow loser in D on a good H) Playing my system I open 1D since ill be able to show 5C and stop at 2C, but otherwise I prefer 1C opening. Even 1C--1H--1S wich is something I never do might make some sense here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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