mgoetze Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 [hv=pc=n&n=st3hjt62da874ckt3&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1sppdrpp]133|200[/hv]Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masse24 Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 West doesn't know what's going on.Your partner wants you to pass.Pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 You should pass if you believe East --r/w--is suicidal. Otherwise, it is South who forgot to take out, or expects you to take out your own takeout. With MY partner passing the redouble, I would know East was the one who made the mistake, this time. Opener is supposed to be showing a big opening hand, not clear whether he has more than five spades. If he has only four (if permitted by system) he would probably have rebid 1NT over the balancing double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolvyrj Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I think everybody shld know whats going on. If u dont, then u havent discuss bout this particular case and if so DONT PASS.My guess is that E has 18-19 and sort of a balanced hand, 1S will sail home regardles how trumps are divided in defence. XX denotes that to W and tells also willingness to penalize every contract we r going to play.W heard that loud and clear and waits whats going to happen next.Prd heard that too, and tries not to dig our hole any deeper, he probaply dosent have 4 c ♥ or 5 c minor. Pass is simply "prd try to get us out of this".That is unless u have discussed and agreed that prd wants u to pass here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuburules3 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I learned that the pass of the 'XX' just says I have no strong opinion on what suit we should play in and is NOT suggesting that 1SXX is a good place to play. Most of my partners believe that the pass of 'XX' is a penalty pass. Obviously these two views are not compatible. I'd be interested to hear what people think is the "best" way to play. It seems to me that you won't want to play 1SXX often enough to play this as penalty, but the argument I've heard saying it should be penalty is that otherwise opener can psyche an 'XX.' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 This is not the classic pass of a one bid redoubled shows no preference. West has shown a very bad hand. Nevertheless, East redoubled. That is very odd. North should have a reasonable idea of what South has based on his own hand. It is not unreasonable to play South's pass as penalties (or, at the very least, optional). This is a very peculiar situation. I am going to discuss it with my partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 This is a penalty pass. Partner is over the spade bidder and very often has long spades here. The redouble doesn't change anything, not to mention it would be super easy to psych the redouble if it prevented your opponents from passing for penalty. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Also, when it is spades, if partner wants to run he can bid 1NT without using up any 'running room'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 p wants to penalize 1s X the xx merely adds frosting to the cake.P wants you to pass. Having said that I would bid 1n. You have a piece of swiss cheese for a balancing x. This handhas almost no redeeming values whatsoever on defense and Iwould hesitate to play a low level contract with this little inthe way of defense. Being competitive is one thing but there is no reason to besuicidal. Leave the xx in with hands that look a bit more likea regular tox and not one you dredged up because you could notstand the thought of letting the opps play 1s:))))))))))))))))) 1n here keeps disasters to a minimum and let p know just how weak you are so the bidding should remain low. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 how did North's surgery go? you know the one for a self inflicted foot GSW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Gszes: Did you notice you have one or two more spades than you might have had? Your partner will be delighted those cards are not in dummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgoetze Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 You have a piece of swiss cheese for a balancing x.Funny I thought it was like a model hand showing exactly what a balancing double should look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 The only pass over a xx that I know of that says 'no preference' is (1x) - dbl - (xx) - pass. AWM is the only player I know that says this is for penalty. I've never discussed the OP auction, but I think that pass over a xx should be for penalty. Clearly it would be if the xx was SOS, and I have a hard time understanding why this isn't converting as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I'm surprised this auction is so foreign to so many people. I've seen it come up a number of times and can remember a few discussions too, which is around the time I think I learned the penalty meaning is standard. My experience has shown it to be clearly best as well. As for this hand pulling even if partner wants to play for penalties, huh? We are minimum but that is completely expected on this auction. And we have good defense and TWO SPADES! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuburules3 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 It is seeming more and more likely that I was wrong when I said I learned that the pass of the redouble was anything but a penalty pass (as I can't really imagine where I would have learned this). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolvyrj Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 If u have discussed bout this situation and agreed his second pass is for penalties then its ok, but that its standard approach....What is easts xx, " prd i want roundest of zeros from this hand/ - 15+ IMPS" depending wheter its MP or IMPS. Ok thats possible too, but lets not count on that. My guess is that its for bussiness or SOS. If its SOS why didnt west run...because theres couple of S in his hand and 1 or 2 useful face cards, or the other case where hes suicidal?What that leaves for prd, 4 card ♠ suit and 4333 distribution. He dosent want to bid 3 card suit so he passes and let u bid u possible 5 c suit.Ok he could bid 1Nt if that means weak hand nothing to say, but we dont have such luxury in our arsenal, so thats that.I have from 1 to 2 defencive tricks in my hand and to pass i shld assume that prd has 5 to 6 of them in his...nope im not going to do that, unless i KNOW this is something we have agreement upon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuburules3 Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 So is there any consensus on what the XX should mean in this auction? If it is just a general show of strength, what is the difference between 'XX' and 1NT? Does it make sense to use it to show a good spade suit and a desire to compete? SOS when you've opened a five card suit and opponents haven't tried to penalize you yet doesn't make much sense to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 The only pass over a xx that I know of that says 'no preference' is (1x) - dbl - (xx) - pass. AWM is the only player I know that says this is for penalty. We will meet, someday. Then, there will be 3; you will meet my spouse, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Some passes over resoubles mean "I don't know what to do", and some mean "I want to defend". I think it a matter for agreement where to draw the line, but this one is usually played as penalties. I think these two are definitely "I don't know what to do":1x dbl rdbl pass 1x pass 1/2y dblrdbl passAnd this is probably best played the same way:1x pass 1NT dblrdbl passThere are some other sequences where it's unclear which meaning is best, usually where the passer is under the length or the opponents are known to be in a fit. The originally posted sequence isn't one of them, however. There are several reasons for pass to be for penalties:- The passer is sitting over the trump length.- It's quite likely that we have more than half the high cards.- There's no reason to think that they have a fit.- Opener has acted unilaterally, so they're unlikely to be sure that 1♠ is making - responder may just have nowhere to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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