bad 3nt ATB

[bftboy]

MPs. -300. Fire away, there's plenty to shoot at.[hv=pc=n&s=sqt2haqdkjcaqt642&n=s43hk9852dq9874c5&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1cp1hp3cp3dp3nppp]266|200[/hv]

[Antrax]

I don't normally reply to these, but isn't it obvious the bad bid is North's second? South made a nonforcing call, and North has a minimal hand.

[billw55]

IMO north should pass 3♣.

[wank]

2nt is much better than 3c, but 3c is not a major problem. north's 3d was absurd though - he should put dummy down and hope p has enough to make it.

[gnasher]

2nt is much better than 3c

Yes, I'd have the much better auction

1

♣

-1

♥

2NT-3

♦

(5+ hearts)

3

♥

-3NT

[pooltuna]

north for not passing 3♣

[ArtK78]

Sorry to pile on, but I just do not understand why North would do anything other than pass over 3♣.

[Phil]

2nt is much better than 3c, but 3c is not a major problem. north's 3d was absurd though - he should put dummy down and hope p has enough to make it.

 

Agree. After 2N there is some guessing here by North, but the hand is much better in a suit contract than any number of NT. Playing Wolff or transfers, I can get out in 3♦, or 3♥. I have a coin with a ♦ on one side and a ♥ on the other. If it lands on the edge, I will pass 2N, otherwise I will play 3 of that suit.

 

If partner rebid 3♣, I will obviously pass.

[S2000magic]

North's hand is worth one bid; he shot his bolt with 1♥. He should pass 3♣.

 

A 2NT rebid by South describes his strength and spread-out honors accurately, and his distribution somewhat accurately, but the problem with it is exactly what we see on this hand: no way to get to dummy because of the honor doubletons in the red suits. Because of that, I think that 3♣ is a better rebid than 2NT.

[neilkaz]

100% blame to North who has an obvious pass of 3♣.

[HighLow21]

To me 3♣ is not a good bid. It implies more playing tricks in a club contract, with or without the 17+ HCP. It also tends to imply an unbalanced hand. Here, we're semi-balanced with 18-19. 2NT rebid. What's the problem?

 

That said, North's failure to pass 3♣ is unforgivably bad. To me it is typical of weak players who REFUSE to believe the evidence of the auction thus far.

[phil_20686]

To me 3♣ is not a good bid. It implies more playing tricks in a club contract, with or without the 17+ HCP. It also tends to imply an unbalanced hand.

 

3C is 15-18 with 6 clubs. Pretty much unplayable to play it as 17+.

 

I dont mind 3C. Also dont mind 2N. On this hand 3C will work out better, as partner will pass, whereas he might well bid over 2N.

[bftboy]

N certainly should pass 3♣, bidding again is a huge and obvious error. It's closer whether N should pass 2nt if that were the call; I have more sympathy for a 3♦ call here. And it's close between 2nt and 3♣, IMO. 2nt is probably the better mp bid.

 

But is everyone agreed that 1 ♥ over 1 ♣ is a sound call? It's not a matter of having only 5 hcp. It's a matter of having them in two bad suits and being very awkwardly placed if P does anything other than raise ♥ or reverse into ♦. I'd pass.

[Phil]

 

But is everyone agreed that 1 ♥ over 1 ♣ is a sound call?

 

1♥ won't get a lot of criticism. At least around here.

[frank0]

N pass 3♣ as others say.

[ggwhiz]

IMO north should pass 3♣.

 

I agree 100% but South should definitely bid 3♥ instead of 3nt.

 

The 3♦ bid was horrible and a heart game should go down but not -300 and has an outside shot of making.

[the hog]

2nt is much better than 3c, but 3c is not a major problem. north's 3d was absurd though - he should put dummy down and hope p has enough to make it.

 

This.

[BillPatch]

To me 3♣ is not a good bid. It implies more playing tricks in a club contract, with or without the 17+ HCP. It also tends to imply an unbalanced hand. Here, we're semi-balanced with 18-19. 2NT rebid. What's the problem?

 

That said, North's failure to pass 3♣ is unforgivably bad. To me it is typical of weak players who REFUSE to believe the evidence of the auction thus far.

Well, well. Partnership desk paired you up with the Rueful Rabbit again. Still, in Holy Week it is improper to preach

hellfire and damnation(unforgivable sin) just because partner plays like a novice. Repent.

 

SJ Simon and Augie Boehm have written on how to play with inferior players. I have nothing to add there.

 

"What's the problem?" Assuming instead we picked up the same hand with a good partner. The problem with the opening 1♣ and

then showing 2NT is that it is an underbid. If we had Q10x AQX KJx AQ10x, the same hand without the long suit,

we would have a maximum 2NT rebid. The two long cards in the good club suit rate an upgrade to a maximum 2NT opener.

 

After North uses Jacoby and rebids 3NT over this. 2NT pass 3♦pass 3♥pass 3NT pass ? , Marty Bergen recommends playing

in the 7 card fit heart game, because South does not have an entrey to the suppose K fifth heart suit. 4♥ is a better contract

than 3NT, but i expect it gets 0 mp for down 2 doubled.

If one instead shows the weaker 1♣then 2NT North should pass unless a signoff is avaiable(Wolff signoff in BWS and most 2 over 1),

others may use transfers to sign off.

[billw55]

Well, well. Partnership desk paired you up with the Rueful Rabbit again. Still, in Holy Week it is improper to preach

hellfire and damnation(unforgivable sin) just because partner plays like a novice. Repent.

 

SJ Simon and Augie Boehm have written on how to play with inferior players. I have nothing to add there.

 

"What's the problem?" Assuming instead we picked up the same hand with a good partner. The problem with the opening 1♣ and

then showing 2NT is that it is an underbid. If we had Q10x AQX KJx AQ10x, the same hand without the long suit,

we would have a maximum 2NT rebid. The two long cards in the good club suit rate an upgrade to a maximum 2NT opener.

Ah, a budding bridge author? I look forward to your upcoming publications :)

 

I don't agree with your reasoning though. The long cards in clubs increase the value of that suit, but also creates short suit honors in the reds which reduces their value a little. So I don't think 2NT opening is the best description of this hand. Not terrible, just not best.

 

Personally, I would open 1♣ and rebid 3♣. Close second choice 1♣ - 2NT. Opening 2NT would be a distant 3rd choice.

[Bbradley62]

But is everyone agreed that 1 ♥ over 1 ♣ is a sound call? It's not a matter of having only 5 hcp. It's a matter of having them in two bad suits and being very awkwardly placed if P does anything other than raise ♥ or reverse into ♦. I'd pass.

You'd be in a very small minority if you passed.

[billw55]

You'd be in a very small minority of forum posters if you passed.

fixed ;)

[wank]

forum posters or not, passing 1♣ is truly truly truly ridiculous.

 

 

you have a lot of playing strength if you find a fit. you really don't need much to make 4♥. on the other hand you have a singleton club and partner may have only 2 or 3 depending on your methods. you could be going down in 1♣ with a slam on in a red suit.

[billw55]

forum posters or not, passing 1♣ is truly truly truly ridiculous.

 

you have a lot of playing strength if you find a fit. you really don't need much to make 4♥. on the other hand you have a singleton club and partner may have only 2 or 3 depending on your methods. you could be going down in 1♣ with a slam on in a red suit.

I agree and yet, we are both forum posters. I know it is silly but there are still quite a few over-conservative players out there who will not open without 13 points and will not respond without 6 points, in club games at least.

[ArtK78]

forum posters or not, passing 1♣ is truly truly truly ridiculous.

 

 

you have a lot of playing strength if you find a fit. you really don't need much to make 4♥. on the other hand you have a singleton club and partner may have only 2 or 3 depending on your methods. you could be going down in 1♣ with a slam on in a red suit.

I agree with everything that you said except for "you really don't need much to make 4♥." You need alot to make 4♥ - a fit and fitting values. True, you might make 4♥ opposite as little as xxx AQx AKx xxxx, but then your opps will make quite a bit also - possibly 10 tricks in spades (certainly 9 tricks).

 

Still, it is absolutely clear to bid 1♥ in an attempt to improve the contract and, possibly, if partner has a good hand with fitting values, bid and make game in a red suit.

[mike777]

agree north should pass 3c