How to bid this slam?

[S2000magic]

Standard American, no splinters, basic RKCB.

 

Opener holds:

 

♠ A Q 10 2

♥ A K 6 2

♦ 2

♣ K Q 9 8

 

Responder holds:

 

♠ 9 4

♥ Q 10 9 8 7 4

♦ Q 8 3

♣ A 7

 

The bidding starts:

 

1♣ - (P) - 1♥ - 2♦

?

 

How do you continue to 6♥?

 

(For what it's worth, the local club expert said that if opener cuebids 3♦ now, responder should assume a heart fit.)

[Codo]

Do you have short suit trial bids avaiable? If so, use them and continue to bid after partners answer to show a possible slam hand.

And agree on the real simple splinter stuff after the session.

 

 

If you have no way to show a heart fit and short diamonds, you play a kind of roulette in the bidding. You need to guess what the right contract is, no need to find it out with any kind of evidence. This is quite a funny game too.

 

The local experts should know and use splinters.

I doubt that there are more then two real experts alive who do not use them.

[aguahombre]

IMO, 3D now, while establishing a big hand, could have a lot of different distributions...none of which suggest 4-card heart support. There are enough other rebids which do that.

 

It is also, IMO too strong to splinter and make partner the captain. Without the 2D interference, I would have planned to J.S. 2S, then hope to jump to 4H. With the interference, I will still try 2S. When (if) partner shows extra heart length, I will launch.

[S2000magic]

Do you have short suit trial bids avaiable? If so, use them and continue to bid after partners answer to show a possible slam hand.

No, alas.

 

And agree on the real simple splinter stuff after the session.

This partner is fairly good, but it will take a while for him to learn to use splinters. (Amongst other problems, I'm the only partner of his who seems to know about them, so he has the difficulty of keeping different sets of agreements straight.)

 

If you have no way to show a heart fit and short diamonds, you play a kind of roulette in the bidding. You need to guess what the right contract is, no need to find it out with any kind of evidence. This is quite a funny game too.

Yup.

 

The local experts should know and use splinters.

I doubt that there are more then two real experts alive who do not use them.

They do; however, none of them were my partner on this hand.

 

The expert to whom I referred is one whose opinion we asked during a break between rounds.

[S2000magic]

IMO, 3D now, while establishing a big hand, could have a lot of different distributions...none of which suggest 4-card heart support. There are enough other rebids which do that.

 

It is also, IMO too strong to splinter and make partner the captain. Without the 2D interference, I would have planned to J.S. 2S, then hope to jump to 4H. With the interference, I will still try 2S. When (if) partner shows extra heart length, I will launch.

I agree that it's too strong to splinter, and that without the interference I'd jump to 2♠ then hope to jump to 4♥. I also agree that 3♦ now doesn't imply a heart fit.

 

As it is, however, is opener's (non-jump) 2♠ forcing?

[aguahombre]

As it is, however, is opener's (non-jump) 2♠ forcing?

It certainly should be. It has morphed from a J.S. to more like a reverse; but, I can't imagine it being passable. Pard will probably Leben, allowing the jump to 4H. Then, with six of those buggers and the Ace of clubs, she will get excited.

[ArtK78]

From North's point of view, how bad can a slam be if South has a 1♥ response to 1♣?

 

All North needs to know is that South has at least one ace. Then, if South's heart suit is as little as JTxx, slam has some play. Obviously, one can hope that South's hearts are better than JTxx, but it is unlikely that North is going to get any useful information from South no matter what he does over 2♦.

 

Whatever useful cards South has, they are likely to be outside of diamonds.

 

So, North can just cue bid 3♦, check for key cards and blast a slam if South has a key card.

 

This may not be a very scientific approach to bidding the slam. But it is a practical approach.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

From North's point of view, how bad can a slam be if South has a 1♥ response to 1♣?

 

All North needs to know is that South has at least one ace.

I agree.

With no 2 quick losers in the side suits, just go RKC ( blasting ) immediately with this big hand.

If 4S! kickback-RKC were available, and I'm sure it isn't with this partnership, you would have room BELOW 5H to make a trump-Q-ask after finding ONE key card..... just to give you more assurance about the final contract.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

3D does not promise a heart fit.

3D is a bid, asking for a stopper in NT, and whatever.

 

4D does promise a heart fit, and is a splinter, and the

splinter meaning of 4D a very natural one.

 

Assuming, for what ever reason, you dont want to bid 4D,

start with X, followed by a heart raise to 4H.

 

Responder may move over 4H on the ground, that he sees a

6-4 fit, or he may not.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[S2000magic]

. . . I'm sure it isn't with this partnership . . . .

You're a physic!

 

;)

[wank]

your local expert is talking out of his arse. The normal hand type for a 3♦ cuebid is a strong club suit and no diamond stop looking for 3NT.

 

here opener just needs to spinter. responder holding 2 extra trumps and a banger in opener's first suit can essay a cuebid despite his skimpy HCP strength.

[S2000magic]

your local expert is talking out of his arse. The normal hand type for a 3♦ cuebid is a strong club suit and no diamond stop looking for 3NT.

Notice that I referred to him as the local expert, not my local expert; the wording wasn't chosen arbitrarily.

 

;)

 

here opener just needs to spinter. responder holding 2 extra trumps and a banger in opener's first suit can essay a cuebid despite his skimpy HCP strength.

That's fine if your partnership employs splinters (which, of course, I would have preferred). Alas, ours didn't.

[HighLow21]

I don't get bidding 2S. 4H is good enough. There is nothing to suggest that slam is on unless partner can guarantee QH, or six hearts, and one of the minor suit aces.

 

I also disagree that the north hand is too strong for a splinter. I've never heard of such a thing. If splinters were in use I would bid it, and if partner signs off I would try again with a 4S cuebid. Partner should now cuebid his AC and we're in 6H.

 

But since splinters are not allowed, I also don't think it's relevant for this discussion.

 

So, my auction begins 1C-P-1H-2D, 4H-P. If I were South I would then bid 5H obviously asking about a diamond control. Got one. 6H.

[Statto]

It certainly should be. It has morphed from a J.S. to more like a reverse; but, I can't imagine it being passable. Pard will probably Leben, allowing the jump to 4H. Then, with six of those buggers and the Ace of clubs, she will get excited.

If pard Lebens, we don't need to jump to 4♥, we can simply bid 3♥ which breaks Leben and is thus GF with ♥ agreed. Now we should hear a ♣ cue...

 

(If there was no interference, after 2♠ we would also not need to jump to 4♥ as we have already set GF, though the rebid here will be 3♥ which makes that immaterial.)

[HighLow21]

If pard Lebens...

You want game forces and Lebensohl and all that in a system without splinters? Hmm.

[Statto]

I don't get bidding 2S. 4H is good enough. There is nothing to suggest that slam is on unless partner can guarantee QH, or six hearts, and one of the minor suit aces.

But partner does have six hearts, and the most useful minor suit Ace. If you just bid 4♥, I can't see partner bidding on with their hand.

[Statto]

You want game forces and Lebensohl and all that in a system without splinters? Hmm.

http://www.google.co...over%29+reverse

 

Edit: Ok, maybe if splinters are not played then Leb probably isn't either.

[HighLow21]

http://www.google.co...over%29+reverse

Right, again, I can't see a partnership being sophisticated enough to incorporate this but not have some form of splintering.

 

I see from your edit that you agree. :-)

[HighLow21]

But partner does have six hearts, and the most useful minor suit Ace. If you just bid 4♥, I can't see partner bidding on with their hand.

Heck, I would. Partner has great support so I will have play for no heart losers (or 1 heart loser but none in diamonds). If partner has his 4H bid, then 5H will be laydown and it asks exactly the right question to find 6H.

[P_Marlowe]

As and additional remark: If I play a system without lots of agreements,

than I will not bother with low HCP slams.

The set in question is a hand pair, where slame makes with 24HCP, 2 of those

being wasted.

 

Thats the price to pay.

 

Trying to find the slam using ambiquious bids, nobody knowes, what they

may mean is a sure way to turn a med. / bad score into a really bad score.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[rhm]

Standard American, no splinters, basic RKCB.

...

(For what it's worth, the local club expert said that if opener cuebids 3♦ now, responder should assume a heart fit.)

So can you please explain what the sequence

 

1♣--1♥--(2♦)--4♦

 

is supposed to mean?

 

Sorry but the whole thread borders a bit on the absurd.

The term splinter at least in in its original sense meant a double jump shift in a new suit, not yet bid by either side, denoting shortness.

However, tournament players took a jump cuebid above 3NT in the suit bid by opponents as showing shortness and agreeing the last suit bid by their side long before the word splinter was even invented as a Bridge term.

Any sensible player should also make a distinction between 3♦ followed by 4♥ and bidding 4♦ directly over a 2♦ overcall.

 

I would refuse to play with any partner, who would not be capable at least on reflection to decipher that 4♦ must show a hand too good to bid 4♥.

Staring at a six card heart suit headed by a top honor yourself, when 4 cards were promised, and ♣Ax in partner suit, it should be simple arithmetic to get to 6♥.

 

The least responder should do is to bid 5♥ over 4♦, which in this context should ask to bid the slam, whenever opener has a ♠ control.

 

A sensible sequence:

 

1♣--1♥--(2♦)

4♦--5♥

5♠--6♣

6♥

 

Rainer Herrmann

[S2000magic]

So can you please explain what the sequence

 

1♣--1♥--(2♦)--4♦

 

is supposed to mean?

To the partner I had on Monday, that sequence doesn't mean anything: he would never bid 4♦ in that situation.

 

If your point is that this is a silly set of circumstances, I would agree if the opening bidder were an experienced player, but disagree if the opening bidder were a beginner. Please assume that he is a beginner.

 

I would refuse to play with any partner, who would not be capable at least on reflection to decipher that 4♦ must show a hand too good to bid 4♥.

That's your choice to make, of course. It's fortunate for beginning players that there are experienced players who are willing to partner with them despite their shortcomings.

 

This partner is quite good enough to decipher that on reflection; that's different from being able to come up with an appropriate bid on the fly, and worlds different from concluding that the jump cuebid shows a singleton, especially when we explicitly chose not to play splinters.

[mike777]

Standard American, no splinters, basic RKCB.

 

Opener holds:

 

♠ A Q 10 2

♥ A K 6 2

♦ 2

♣ K Q 9 8

 

Responder holds:

 

♠ 9 4

♥ Q 10 9 8 7 4

♦ Q 8 3

♣ A 7

 

The bidding starts:

 

1♣ - (P) - 1♥ - 2♦

?

 

How do you continue to 6♥?

 

(For what it's worth, the local club expert said that if opener cuebids 3♦ now, responder should assume a heart fit.)

 

 

4d KISS

[lalldonn]

Who's fault would it be if the hands were Axxx AKxx x KQxx and xx xxxxxx xxx Ax?

[S2000magic]

4d KISS

4♦ meaning . . . what, exactly? And what do you see as the continuation to 6♥?