Razz

[Phil]

Gave this hand to a few of you yesterday. Here it is for the rest of you:

 

IMPs, r/w. Opponents are good but not w/c. You have a pretty good pair (Steen Moller + pd) at the other table holding your cards.

 

♠T7x ♥A6432 ♦A9 ♣AKJ

 

(1♠) - pass - (1N*) - ?

 

* forcing

 

Thanks. Followups later.

[aguahombre]

Change the 6 of hearts to the 5, and I can't resist.

[nige1]

IMPs, r/w. Opponents are good but not w/c. You have a pretty good pair (Steen Moller + pd) at the other table holding your cards. ♠ T7x ♥ A6432 ♦ A9 ♣ AKJ

(1♠) - pass - (1N*) - ?

* forcing

IMO

Pass = 10, 2♥ = 9, _X = 6. With this shape, pass for now and reconsider on the next round of bidding. Double now if the doubleton were ♠

[phil_20686]

I kinda think you have to bid 2H here. My first instinct was to pass, but its just quite likely that we have a decent game on if partner has a few hearts. You could lose three spade tricks and still have a decent shot at game here: xxx KQxx Kxx xxx or something.

 

Still I dont have a strong feeling. My initial instinct was pass, but I have kinda reasoned myself into bidding, but am still ambivalent because I am concerned that partner might well have spade length given the auction so far.

[ArtK78]

I just cannot bid 2♥ red on Axxxx. I pass.

[billw55]

Looks like an auto pass to me, for so many reasons. We are red and partner could easily be broke and/or without a fit. And if partner is not broke, then ops will stop bidding and perhaps we can balance. Lastly I have excellent defensive values and should be satisfied defending if it comes to that (for example, not hard to imagine ops playing 4♠-1 if partner is broke).

 

Perhaps some real experts will come along next and say that we must bid because we might have a game. To me -500 or -800 seem much more likely than +620 but maybe that is wrong.

[Fluffy]

I'd autobid 2♥ at MPs, but IMPs I am not quite confident.

[gnasher]

I'd pass. It's not just the horrible hearts: I have horrible spades too.

[lalldonn]

♠T7x ♥A6432 ♦A9 ♣AKJ

 

(1♠) - pass - (1N*) - ?

 

* forcing

 

Thanks. Followups later.

??

 

Pass = 10

!!

 

I just cannot bid 2♥ red on Axxxx. I pass.

!!!

 

Looks like an auto pass to me, for so many reasons.

!!!!

 

I'd pass. It's not just the horrible hearts: I have horrible spades too.

!!!!!

 

2♥ with no logical alternative. And if I had a drunk director in a bad mood going through a difficult divorce who decided on a whim to bar me from bidding 2♥, I would double and still not consider it close.

[nigel_k]

2♥ with no logical alternative. And if I had a drunk director in a bad mood going through a difficult divorce who decided on a whim to bar me from bidding 2♥, I would double and still not consider it close.

I always overcall on these hands with lots of values and a poorish suit, but I don't think it's anywhere near as clearcut as that.

[mikeh]

I think that 2♥ is clear, but I hate it. I usually talk myself out of this sort of action at the table, on the basis of what Andy wrote....the bad heart spots and the terrible spades.

 

But while bidding is dangerous, so is passing.

 

The idea of passing and then balancing makes me ill: let's see.....let's let the opps describe and limit their hand and then make what they will know is a shaded call (since surely I would bid directly otherwise) and then let them decide what to do.

 

It's not as if we have a surefire chance of getting to reopen at the 2-level. No, a very, very common auction will find LHO bidding a minor and RHO correcting to 2♠...now what?

 

In the meantime, it isn't that difficult to see a game on our way, or a partscore swing, or the opps just flat out making a poor choice (in hindsight, at least). We see the awful hearts and spades we hold....they don't know about these defects.

 

 

I am a lot braver here than in real life....I hope that bidding would have worked here, or my inner chicken is going to squawk at me next time I am trying to muster the courage to make this overcall.

[lalldonn]

People sometimes ask me why I respond with so little and open with so little, especially not vul and especially when the opponents are vul. And I say, there are opponents out there who might pass over the response with 16 points and 5 hearts. And they say, no really! And I say, I know I would never have believed it either if I didn't see it with my own two eyes!

 

(not that bidding wouldn't be obvious against any opponents, including 'sound bidders')

[mike777]

I would have doubled but I understand 2h.

[Phil]

I held this at the table, and 'at least' doubled. The auction continued:

 

[2♣) - 2♦ - (2♠) - ?

 

I chose to double again and heard a regressive 3♦, although I don't know what he is supposed to bid with xx KJT KJ9xx xxx. The other table bid 4♥ after this hand overcalled 2♥.

 

I'd like to think there is something we can all take away from this.

[mike777]

I held this at the table, and 'at least' doubled. The auction continued:

 

[2♣) - 2♦ - (2♠) - ?

 

I chose to double again and heard a regressive 3♦, although I don't know what he is supposed to bid with xx KJT KJ9xx xxx. The other table bid 4♥ after this hand overcalled 2♥.

 

I'd like to think there is something we can all take away from this.

 

 

 

3d is not much of a response.......how about 3s now getting to 4h.

[Statto]

I would have bid 2♥ first time. I don't like double because I don't have great ♦ tolerance and the ♠ are too long. I don't like passing because it will be hard to come into the auction later, and I still don't have ♦ tolerance. Maybe it goes (1♠)-p-(1NT)-p-(2♦)-p-(2♠) and the ♦ tolerance problem goes away, but do I want to suggest 4-4 when I'm 5-3?

 

The ♥ suit is poor but the hand is good. Sometimes we'll find game, sometimes we'll go for -800. But more often than not it will be a partscore hand possibly worth a very useful 4-6 IMPs. Maybe the hand is too defensive to bid at all unless an opportunity arises, but if I'm going to act it has to be 2♥ right away.

 

On the actual auction, partner has made a free bid. I'm still not thinking game, but I'd like to compete a bit more. How about 3♣?

[mike777]

seems no problem after x and x but there was a problem oh well

 

I can understand 2h but x was nt the problem; pass was.

[Statto]

Perhaps a need to distinguish the meanings of the 2nd X and 3♣. Should one of them suggest a poor 5-card ♥ suit with an honour? X clearly allows the possibility of defending 2♠X...

[mike777]

sorry but on this one I thought 3s not 3d clear after second x butr I guess not.

 

 

all of pards cards must be working.

[Statto]

Oh, 3♠ from partner instead of 3♦, gotcha :)

[aguahombre]

Interesting. Nobody has a problem how to follow up after a 2H overcall, just how to deal with their own double.

[gnasher]

Interesting. Nobody has a problem how to follow up after a 2H overcall, just how to deal with their own double.

That's not terribly surprising.

 

If you make a takeout double with 3-2 in two of the unbid suits, you're quite likely to face a bidding problem. Bidding your longest suit rarely creates a bidding problem, but will sometimes produce a play problem. Not bidding anything at all avoids both, but may produce a scoring-up problem.

[gnasher]

I held this at the table, and 'at least' doubled. The auction continued:

 

[2♣) - 2♦ - (2♠) - ?

 

I chose to double again and heard a regressive 3♦, although I don't know what he is supposed to bid with xx KJT KJ9xx xxx. The other table bid 4♥ after this hand overcalled 2♥.

 

I'd like to think there is something we can all take away from this.

I think your partner should have bid 3♦ over 2♣. That's quite a good hand opposite a vulnerable takeout double in a non-fit auction, with the opponents bidding the black suits.

 

Once you make a second takeout double, he's easily worth game. I'd have tried 3♥, which is clearly not a four-card suit.

[billw55]

Perhaps some real experts will come along next and say that we must bid because we might have a game. To me -500 or -800 seem much more likely than +620 but maybe that is wrong.

 

2♥ with no logical alternative. And if I had a drunk director in a bad mood going through a difficult divorce who decided on a whim to bar me from bidding 2♥, I would double and still not consider it close.

 

I chose to double again and heard a regressive 3♦, although I don't know what he is supposed to bid with xx KJT KJ9xx xxx. The other table bid 4♥ after this hand overcalled 2♥.

So I was right about something :P well, sort of.

 

But seriously, I apparently have a big misunderstanding here. Sure, we made game this hand while ops have just about the least possible for their bidding, and we happen to have a fit. But what about all those other deals where we are going off? Don't those affect the EV even though they don't show up in forum threads? I would think that making game must be a fairly small minority of deals here, I would guess less than 20%, maybe someone can do a sim?

 

Or looked at another way, how much would you have to reduce this hand before it would be a pass? Red on white ...

[whereagles]

Gonna pass and pay tribute to opps if we happen to have like 27 HCP.

 

Will probably pass throughout.