Expert level in BBO

[JLOGIC]

Yes, I think professional is manually programmed in by the creator. It doesn't give a rating number for "professionals" either. So World Class is the highest. I need to play a little more on PhantomSac, it has me at expert but only 50 points away from someone who is WC. Time to grind! The professional tag sucks since it means I cannot get to WC as jlall

 

Edit: Jdonn also said he is gonna play more to improve his rating!

[jillybean]

I am a beginner. :(

As a higher ranked player I should be waiting for you to ask me to play then?

[JLOGIC]

Is it important?

 

Ratings are fun, what do you want? On yahoo, sometimes I will play spades or hearts all night instead of bridge to try and get my rating up to a certain goal level. On OKB, I played a lot to try and improve my lehman. A lot of my friends play call of duty or diablo or whatever to reach higher levels and unlock new stuff. Playing for the love of the game is great and all that, but for competitive people these kind of things are motivating/fun, for instance me playing more to get my robot duplicate account to WC, or get to 63 % average or whatever. Maybe you look down upon that kind of thing but whatever, it's fun! I am not saying that I think BBO should have a rating system, I saw on OKB what the costs of that were, but I am surprised if you do not see any possible benefit to the point where you have to ask me if it matters.

[jillybean]

Ratings are fun, what do you want? On yahoo, sometimes I will play spades or hearts all night instead of bridge to try and get my rating up to a certain goal level. On OKB, I played a lot to try and improve my lehman. A lot of my friends play call of duty or diablo or whatever to reach higher levels and unlock new stuff. Playing for the love of the game is great and all that, but for competitive people these kind of things are motivating/fun, for instance me playing more to get my robot duplicate account to WC, or get to 63 % average or whatever. Maybe you look down upon that kind of thing but whatever, it's fun! I am not saying that I think BBO should have a rating system, I saw on OKB what the costs of that were, but I am surprised if you do not see any possible benefit to the point where you have to ask me if it matters.

Hi Justin. I can understand playing to reach a higher level, unlock new stuff, get a 63% average, earn bucks, earn a reputation. That's fun, and addictive. I don't understand why you especialy would be interested in this mickey mouse rating system when you have nothing to prove.

 

I also don't agree that competitiveness has much to do with it. I am competitive I don't play simply because I love the game, I want to win. OTOH, I don't give a toss about monster points, that system is also flawed. I would however like some plantinum points :)

[hrothgar]

Ratings are fun, what do you want? On yahoo, sometimes I will play spades or hearts all night instead of bridge to try and get my rating up to a certain goal level. On OKB, I played a lot to try and improve my lehman. A lot of my friends play call of duty or diablo or whatever to reach higher levels and unlock new stuff. Playing for the love of the game is great and all that, but for competitive people these kind of things are motivating/fun, for instance me playing more to get my robot duplicate account to WC, or get to 63 % average or whatever. Maybe you look down upon that kind of thing but whatever, it's fun! I am not saying that I think BBO should have a rating system, I saw on OKB what the costs of that were, but I am surprised if you do not see any possible benefit to the point where you have to ask me if it matters.

 

Here's a silly idea:

 

Imagine if we could design an algorithm that could look at an (arbitrary) hand as it is being played and determine whether declarer had executed a squeeze, or an end play, or a strip and an end play, what have you.

 

This app would run as a background task on your local PC.

If it determined that you had successfully executed a stepping-stone squeeze, you'd get the stepping stone badge.

Alternative, if you yourself got squeezed, you'd get the "squoozen" badge.

 

Might add something to the site.

No idea if this would be worth the time / effort required to code this up.

 

Worse yet, not sure if this would be worth the hassles as someone complained that they had just executed some glorious coup and this buggy piece of shite program didn't recognize it...

 

Still, its an amusing idea

[JLOGIC]

Hi Justin. I can understand playing to reach a higher level, unlock new stuff, get a 63% average, earn bucks, earn a reputation. That's fun, and addictive. I don't understand why you especialy would be interested in this mickey mouse rating system when you have nothing to prove.

 

I also don't agree that competitiveness has much to do with it. I am competitive I don't play simply because I love the game, I want to win. OTOH, I don't give a toss about monster points, that system is also flawed. I would however like some plantinum points :)

 

Because, I want to reach the highest level. Of course it is stupid, but it is also fun and addictive to me. That is what most internet games are based on (reaching the highest level, or getting to whatever your goal is...I will never have a 4:1 KDR in call of duty, but I enjoy trying to get to 2:1, it is a personal goal that would be hard but possible based on my skill level). I don't understand your point, does it bother you that something might interest me that doesn't interest you? I also play kids games on addictinggames.com sometimes and try to improve on my best scores! :)

 

It is probably semantics, but trying to reach new highs etc for yourself is competitive to me. Maybe some people don't like that, and only want to compete against other people...it is kind of like running track and competing vs others vs running track and timing yourself and trying to improve on your old time. Maybe the latter would not be fun to you but it is to me. I mean, I like playing bridge, and I like having random goals, if one of them is to improve from expert to world class and that makes me play a little more seriosuly/focused in gib tournaments I don't think that's an awful thing. I've been getting clee/jdonn to try to do a bet with me like the robot race one so that we can actually see how good we are at them and have no excuse for ***** around but so far terms have not been decided.

[JLOGIC]

Here's a silly idea:

 

Imagine if we could design an algorithm that could look at an (arbitrary) hand as it is being played and determine whether declarer had executed a squeeze, or an end play, or a strip and an end play, what have you.

 

This app would run as a background task on your local PC.

If it determined that you had successfully executed a stepping-stone squeeze, you'd get the stepping stone badge.

Alternative, if you yourself got squeezed, you'd get the "squoozen" badge.

 

Might add something to the site.

No idea if this would be worth the time / effort required to code this up.

 

Worse yet, not sure if this would be worth the hassles as someone complained that they had just executed some glorious coup and this buggy piece of shite program didn't recognize it...

 

Still, its an amusing idea

 

Haha, I like it!

[JLOGIC]

Also, you know the first thing I did when I saw this program was look up clee and jdonn and leo lasotas %ages and ratings lol. I pointed out how I only play robot dupes drunk or under the influence of stuff...excuses were flying, egos were hurt, plans were made. This thing is not bad if you like to compete vs your friends. And you know thats why jdonn insta said hes gonna play more and started crying about how hes always above 60 % but has been playing bad lately :P Maybe this stuff is silly but it probably will make us better!

[jillybean]

Maybe this stuff is silly but it probably will make us better!

True.

[fuburules3]

I would be interested to see someone try to convincingly beat Leo Lasota's GIB matchpoint average (60.35% over last month at the moment) over a statistically significant number of hands.

[fred]

Here's a silly idea:

 

Imagine if we could design an algorithm that could look at an (arbitrary) hand as it is being played and determine whether declarer had executed a squeeze, or an end play, or a strip and an end play, what have you.

 

This app would run as a background task on your local PC.

If it determined that you had successfully executed a stepping-stone squeeze, you'd get the stepping stone badge.

Alternative, if you yourself got squeezed, you'd get the "squoozen" badge.

 

Might add something to the site.

No idea if this would be worth the time / effort required to code this up.

 

Worse yet, not sure if this would be worth the hassles as someone complained that they had just executed some glorious coup and this buggy piece of shite program didn't recognize it...

 

Still, its an amusing idea

Many years ago I wrote a program that basically did this (it made it fairly easy to define various types of end positions and then was able to recognize these positions when they were reached in a "bridge movie").

 

Maybe one day when I am bored I will try find the code (or write a new version of it) and think about ways that such functionality might be applied to various BBO contexts.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[JLOGIC]

I would be interested to see someone try to convincingly beat Leo Lasota's GIB matchpoint average (60.35% over last month at the moment) over a statistically significant number of hands.

 

http://bboskill.com/user/rogerclee

 

clee is beating him over 736 hands. I am close but have only played 210.

 

Anyways, there is no doubt that leo lasota could beat his own number imo, he could just play slower I would guess. I am 100 % sure I could beat 62 % playing seriously, I would even wager on it and lay some odds if anyone wants! I kept track for a while when I played non drug affected ones, but I would like to try it officially (and possibly blog about it).

 

Also, Leo Lasota plays to win always I'm sure, which means swinging at the end. That alone hurts your average, not to mention tilting :P Playing for average in a bet would change those things.

 

Clee, if you're reading this just take 3 % and lets play 100 of them, don't be such a wimp!

[JLOGIC]

Clee: Wow, what is this thing? I'm not gonna F around anymore

[hrothgar]

Many years ago I wrote a program that basically did this (it made it fairly easy to define various types of end positions and then was able to recognize these positions when they were reached in a "bridge movie").

 

Maybe one day when I am bored I will try find the code (or write a new version of it) and think about ways that such functionality might be applied to various BBO contexts.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

 

All that I ask is that you have a "squoozen" badge...

Maybe something for taking too many dummy finesses

 

(I am a firm believer that silliness is a powerful motivating force)

 

Leeroy JENKINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mbodell]

That site fetches data from My Hands, and it's not an official BBO site. It was promoted heavily on BBO through impersonation of a BBO username, and spamming randoms. I am surprised to see how much people believe it's genuine.

 

We posted a warning in the News too, but it was pretty useless. If people want to have ratings they will believe anything :)

 

I actually think it is a reasonably useful service to put ratings on for people who like it. And it seems like it is trying to be modeled on more or less the chess elo scale.

[cherdano]

Many years ago I wrote a program that basically did this (it made it fairly easy to define various types of end positions and then was able to recognize these positions when they were reached in a "bridge movie").

 

Maybe one day when I am bored I will try find the code (or write a new version of it) and think about ways that such functionality might be applied to various BBO contexts.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

It's nice if it recognized stepping stone double-squeezes. But more importantly it should make a nice congratulatory beep when winning the last trick with the beer card!

[Zelandakh]

While the rating of "Expert" is rubbish, what you should take from this is that it is time for you to stop playing primarily against B/I opposition.

I don't have much choice about this since I play in the Acol club where there are no experts. A few rate themselves as such but they are mostly even worse than those we see on a regular basis (and we do not allow them to blame their (pick-up) partners for their own mistakes so they typically leave upset after a while).

[diana_eva]

I actually think it is a reasonably useful service to put ratings on for people who like it. And it seems like it is trying to be modeled on more or less the chess elo scale.

 

Yes, maybe. I was mostly annoyed by the methods used to promote it on BBO. People ask yellows about it, not the creator who did not even put a "contact us" box there. From a BBOer's point of view it's probably fun to have this tool.

Edited April 27, 2012 by diana_eva

[hrothgar]

It's nice if it recognized stepping stone double-squeezes. But more importantly it should make a nice congratulatory beep when winning the last trick with the beer card!

 

How could I have forgotten about the beer card...

[jjbrr]

wait, did i just see a leeroy jenkins reference on bbf? that's awesome.

[barmar]

Here's a silly idea:

 

Imagine if we could design an algorithm that could look at an (arbitrary) hand as it is being played and determine whether declarer had executed a squeeze, or an end play, or a strip and an end play, what have you.

This could also be the answer to people who think bridge scoring is unfair -- when you get fixed you get a bad score even though you did nothing wrong. The algorithm would determine for each pair whether they did something exceptional or wrong, and assign scores appropriately.

 

This is basically like par tournaments, but it needs to be automated to be useful for large-scale games.

[GMarco24]

Hi all,

 

As a creator of http://bboskill.com I want to explain some issues...

I can see you already have some info about it: it's not a BBO's tool, it uses BBO's MyHands and it's not perfect. And it would never be. More you think and solve one problem there'll be 2 new problems.

 

For now service has 3 obvious major problems:

 

1) Players who play with weak opponents are experts and world class

2) Really strong players who play only with friends, also strong players are advanced, intermediate or even lower than that

3) It gets only 1 month of period

 

1) and 2)

There is a correction based on partner's and opponent's strength. The only problem is I have really small database for now and I don't have at least one monthly result for each player. I think it would be more than rude to torture MyHands server with some scrap scripts, so I am only sending and storing requests that users make. Well, that takes time.

For correction I came up with this calculation:

(-partner+opp1+opp2)/3 for each board played (I don't think it's perfect and I need to test it). As I don't have many results they are 0,0,0 divided by 3 or 0,0,0.3 divided by 3 is only 0.1 and too many zeros lead to small correction. How would this work, time will show, but with good database correction will be big factor in calculation.

I've tried to protect top class players. They often play under 200 hands monthly and usually with friends and only several different players. If we imagine closed group of world class players, who only play with each other, someone will score under zero. There is no trick I can represent their real level and rating correctly now. Correction will do the job, but only if big part of them play with other, regular players and they score like 2.0 imp/board. So, I am making my list of famous players around the world. Some of them are on the list, some not yet. When I calculate correction against 'protected' players I take their real score if it's bigger than some my, imaginary number, and if it's lower I take that number as a score(like +1.0 and protected world class player can't go under that for calculation of corrections )

 

3)

I store all requests made by users. After couple of months I'll have some timeline and rating will be more accurate. Myhands won't allow you to take longer period than 1 months and that's it. I am simply limited to work with that.

 

Basically I am aware of all problems, and more and deeper you think even more problems you'll find. Just think about: GIB hands, TM ("Why is my fault when my team mates go down on 6♠ where they should claim easy 12?"), "I play only MP's. Is that transformation you make to imp correct?" and many others.

I look at this site this way:

-It's made for several days with very limited resources

-It's much more popular than I expected, so it's not complete "rubbish" as many love to say

-It's great for some purposes I thought it would be mostly used: e.g. discover "world class" player in individual tournament in front of you with -2.0 imp/board or make fun of your friend because he is only advanced and you are expert (Some of my friends already told me they stopped fooling around and they are trying to play more seriously. Some of them told me they feel more competitive now. For me they all look much more like 7♦ last days ;) )

 

As long as people don't get it too seriously, there is no danger.

 

Marko Gligorijevic

[Leo LaSota]

http://bboskill.com/user/rogerclee

 

clee is beating him over 736 hands. I am close but have only played 210.

 

Anyways, there is no doubt that leo lasota could beat his own number imo, he could just play slower I would guess. I am 100 % sure I could beat 62 % playing seriously, I would even wager on it and lay some odds if anyone wants! I kept track for a while when I played non drug affected ones, but I would like to try it officially (and possibly blog about it).

 

Also, Leo Lasota plays to win always I'm sure, which means swinging at the end. That alone hurts your average, not to mention tilting :P Playing for average in a bet would change those things.

 

Clee, if you're reading this just take 3 % and lets play 100 of them, don't be such a wimp!

 

Justin,

 

I promise you that I do not use strategies to maximize my % in the robot games. I just like to get more and more declarer hands in in a short period of time. If my goal was just to max my average %, I have no doubt that I could average 65%. I am naturally competitive at alot of stuff as you are, but having the best % average is not a competitve itch of mine. I have never even visited this rating site that everyone has talked about. For all I know, I may be considered a novice.

[JLOGIC]

I believe you! I think we should try some competition where we try to avg over 65, I have heard uday doubts its possible.

[Leo LaSota]

I believe you! I think we should try some competition where we try to avg over 65, I have heard uday doubts its possible.

 

Not sure why Uday would doubt that it is possible. Many people (including Uday) find it hard to believe I win about 50% of the 18 board tourneys I enter as it is. If my goal was just to win the things, I would probably win about 80% of them.