Opener's rebid playing 2/1 GF

[inquiry]

You hold[hv=d=s&v=n&s=sqtxxhaq9xxdakxcx]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Bidding is,

 

South - 1H

North - 2C

 

You are playing 2/1 GF (and not a strong 1C bid where you hand is limited greatly by the 1H opening bid).

 

This is a fun hand to see how people treat this very routine hand differently, so those of you who don't mind, please discuss why you bid as you do.

[Free]

Isn't this a 2♥ rebid? 2♠ would be reverse, and it depends on how strong you consider reverses. I'm used to play them 15+ (so this hand qualifies) but standard you probably need more...

[Gerben47]

Isn't this a plain 2♠ rebid? This shows extra values but I have them.

With an unbalanced minimum I rebid 2♥.

 

The way I was tought this even playing 2/1 not GF this is a 2♠ bid but it seems this is not standard?

[daswallow]

I bid 2♠. Surely this is the right bid playing 2/1?

[luke warm]

i don't play 2s as necessarily a reverse, so i'd bid that... i *almost* voted for the flannery answer, but someone might come by here before they're awake, or in the evening after imbibing... and i didn't want to give whomever that might be an apoleptic fit (you know who you are heheh :))

 

oh btw, i'd have really opened this 1s and expected to have a decent auction regardless of partner's hand

[whereagles]

Borderline between 2H or 2S. I prefer 2H 'cos I don't like the club singleton. Would bid 2S if I needed to stretch a bit.

[han]

I would bid 2S, this shows at least a king above a minimum in my partnerships. Since I would open on Q10xx AQxxx Axx x, I have enough here. If I wasn't good enough, I would bid 2D (showing a minimum hand, says nothing about diamonds).

[Chamaco]

2S would be a reverse, not necessarily based on hcp, but on losers (5-5.5 losers).

Here we have 6 losers (2.5 in spades, 1.5 hearts, 1 diamonds, 1 club), which qualifies for a non minimum opener but still a normal opener.

 

Additional minuses:

 

1) I have a singleton in pard suit

2) Spade suit not great quality

 

 

For all of the above i rebid 2H, waiting, which does not guarantee/exclude extra strength nor extra length in hearts.

[han]

btw, I voted "not a reverse how I play", but since it does show extras, the right option wasn't available.

[sceptic]

I voted for 2spade rebid,

 

I think think this hand is worth an extra few points, also I think that it conveys the state of your hand better,

 

After another possiblle club bid, you have a 3rd suit to bid, definately worth stretching to a reverse bid in my opinion

[HeartA]

After 2/1 (even SAYC), I don't play reverse anymore. What is the purpose of reversing? It forces partner to bid again (hand is strong, of course). Here partner will not pass (after 2/1), it's a good idea to bid whatever (suit, distribution etc) you have.

[whereagles]

The purpose of reversing after a 2/1 is to be able to show whether you're in the 11-15 or 16-20 zone. It's not a useless complication because shape isn't everything. HCP counts too.

[luke warm]

with one more heart, this would be on the cusp of a jump to 3h over 2c... that means it's more than a minimum, in this case barely more... however, it does have a good zar count

 

the biggest danger in reversing is having a hard time turning partner off, assuming you even want to... however, since i don't play this as a reverse (even if i should), i don't have that problem...besides, like i said earlier i'd open 1s in the first place

[pclayton]

2♠ - in a 2/1 auctions, promises about a King more than a mininimum; hey cool - thats what I got B). Over 2N, 3♦. Over 3♣ (now GF), 3N. Over 3♥ and 3♠, 4♦. Pass 4♥ and 4♠.

 

Not the already over-burdened 2♥, and not a misdescriptive 2♦. 2N on a 4531 is not appealing either, but is my second choice because 80% of the time we'll play it there and I want to protect my Q-10.

[jtfanclub]

Here we have 6 losers (2.5 in spades, 1.5 hearts, 1 diamonds, 1 club), which qualifies for a non minimum opener but still a normal opener.

When I opened the hand, I considered it worth 6 losers. After my partner did a GF, I consider it worth 5 losers. Partner is odds-on to have an honor in each major, and how would he know that, say the Jx in spades was worth anything?

[mike777]

Easy 2s bid in my style of 2/1. Given choice prefer shape over HCP showing here.

 

Please note definitions are very important!

 

HERE IS BRIDGE ENCYCLOPEDIA 6TH EDITION DEFINITION:

 

AN UNFORCED REBID AT THE LEVEL OF TWO OR MORE IN A HIGHER RANKING SUIT THAN THAT BID ORIGINALLY-USUALLY A STRENGTH-SHOWING BID(NOT 100%).

 

I notice in this thread and in many others the issue of the full definition of reverses.

Please note 2 things.

1) yes this is a reverse by definition 100%.

2) Not all reverses show extra strength by definition. ( OFTEN BUT NOT 100%).

 

Of course in your system it may be 100% strength showing but that is a matter of partnership agreement not definition.

[nikos59]

Can't answer the poll, because no option is right.

I bid 2S but I don't consider this to be "light"

nor "how I play".

2S is a reverse and it does show some extras

even after a 2/1 GF. This hand has more than

some extras.

 

nikos

[HeartA]

When we know that the combined hands have a game, it is VERY important to find a fit first. Either side with more than minimum then can show interest in slam. Even without ♦K or ♥Q, I would still rebid 2S.

[Cowology]

In my regular partnership we play that 2S here does not neccesarily promise additional values so that would be my bid. Without this agreement I would bid 2H.

[helene_t]

According to Hardy this is a 2♠ which does not show extras unless you play Flannery.

 

In Lawrence's method it does show extras but I think this hand is good enough. The reason why it shows extras is that because in Lawrence's method (at least, in his original method) a 2/1 is not a GF but a reverse would be a GF. This hand is good enough for a GF and therefore (I think) good enough for a reverse.

 

In this respect I follow Hardy with my tuesday pd and Lawrence with my wednesday pd.

[Chamaco]

Regardless of the strength requirements for "pseudoreversing", I think the main reason to do it is showing a GOOD second suit.

 

Bidding 3m should show a good 5 card suit with at least 2 of the top 3 honors (QJTxx is also ok, but it's the minimum requirement), or exceptionally, a semisolid (4 of top 5 honors) 4 card suit.

 

Requirements for "pseudoreversing" to 2S can be a little more relaxed, but still in this case the quality of the spade suit is not that great and IMO does not justify it.

 

In both cases (minor and major suit "pseudoreversing"), the second suit should be a source of tricks, not just a bid showing a non-descript second suit.

 

This is the approach used by Mike Lawrence, but not only because he uses 2/1 as "semiGF": he chooses this approach mostly because it is much more helpful to evaluate how the hands fit in terms of "fillers" in pards suit: you show where your *values* are rather than simply showing shape with broken suits.

This way, even holding Hx in a suit where pard has guaranteed top honors can be greatly reevaluated for slam purposes.

 

I have to say that this approach does not lose much, because when you have a broken second suit you can still use the waiting rebid of the majhor and show your features later, helping much more your pard to evaluate the hand.

 

-----------------------------------------

Back to the hand.

It is easy to be overoptimistic with this hand, but in reality prudence is called for, since we have a singleton in pard suit and, so far no real reasons to be that happy.

We are in GF auction, but there are no other good news so far.

 

We have nothing to lose, and as a matter of fact, much to gain by making a waiting bid such as 2H:

 

1- we won't risk losing the spades fit if it is there

2- we have time to reevaluate the hand according to pard's rebid.

[nikos59]

Several esteemed members here suggest that opener should not or cannot

bid his spades because it would show extras or it would show a stronger

suit than Q10xx or whatever.

 

On the other hand, unless pard is playing Mafia (majors always first

in answering), which by the way is an excellent method that I

almost always follow, partner may well have a spade suit along with

longer clubs.

 

Let's see.

The auction has gone

1H - 2C

2H

and both partners may have four spades but no one has named the

suit yet.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that there is no risk of missing the

spade fit?

[Chamaco]

Are you seriously suggesting that there is no risk of missing the

spade fit?

Yes, but it not me who suggest it, it is Mike Lawrence :-)

 

2H does not deny spades.

It is just a waiting bid that says "Pard I cannot bid anything else because":

 

-2NT shows a NON minimum hand (e.g. 13+; you vcan play minimax ranges if you like so, e.g jumop to 3NT is 16-18 and 2NT is higher/lower range) and GUARANTEES side stoppers and guarantees at least 2 cards in pd suit (stiff honor may be occasional exception)

- "pseudoreversing" (2S/3m)guarantees a source of tricks (honors concentration)

- jump rebid shows a semisolid trump suit with extra length

- raising pard's 2/1: pard's 2/1 guarantees 5+ cards and a suit better than QTxxx. If the 2/1 suit is minor, opener needs a NON minimum hand (e.g. 14+ hcp and/or 6 losers hand), and HXX or XXXX support at least (honors concentration principle again).

Much different is the case where the 2/1 suit is hearts (over 1S opener), when the priority becomes to support responder regardless of the quality of the hand and quality of support. In this case, not raising immediately runs the concrete risk of losing the fit (unlike for spades in the hand we are examining here) so the requirements have to be relaxed.

-----------------------------------------------

 

Back to the hand

If responder had 5+ clubs and 4 spades, he will now bid spades and we'll support (ty Whereagles for examples :-) ), so no problem.

[whereagles]

Yes.

 

1H 2C

2H 2S

4S = QTxx AQ9xx Axx x

 

1H 2C

2H 2S

3S = QTxx AQ9xx AKx x

[flytoox]

playing 2/1, 2s shows extra, that is what i want to tell pd. So 2S is my bid. It is reverse, but not confined to 16+, but good 14+.