barmar Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I wish it were true but unfortunately this is not always the case. An inveterate minority here in Germany do indeed put the stop card exactly where they would put a pass card, then place their bid on top of that, wait a few seconds (less than 10 of course, just like everyone else), and then pull the stop card out from under the bid.I've occasionally seen the same maneuver here in the US as well. It's not too common, but that's partially because use of the STOP card is not as prevalent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 I think we may be establishing precedent of the form "the rules say X, but when people do Y instead, the rule changes to "X or Y". Do we really want to do that? Not really, but the problem is that 'alternative' methods of passing (tapping the table, picking up the bidding cards...) are so common that one has to do something.This was discussed and the EBU came up with this ruling because there were a couple of cases where: - a player had clearly intended to pass in the passout seat- they had done so in some non-approved fashion (e.g. picking up the bidding cards, in one case tapping the table and saying "stick" or something similar)- they then changed their mind about their final pass in a non-25A manner TDs weren't sure whether to let them change the pass or not, because technically that hadn't in fact passed, so technically it seemed they should be allowed to make whatever bid they liked. It seemed unfair that someone who wasn't obeying the rules initially ended up in a better position than someone who was correctly following the bidding box regulations, hence the guidance that a TD may interpret an action as a pass. We didn't want to start writing 'will' interpret it as a pass, because then you start having stupid discussions about what if someone was picking their bidding cards up because there was water spilled on the table, or they were drumming their fingers not passing or.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 I wish it were true but unfortunately this is not always the case. An inveterate minority here in Germany do indeed put the stop card exactly where they would put a pass card, then place their bid on top of that, wait a few seconds (less than 10 of course, just like everyone else), and then pull the stop card out from under the bid.Agree with barmar about "it happens here too", but frequently they don't "pull the stop card out". Thus leading to "losing" the stop card, getting another from another box, the next pair finding it behind the 3♥ card, ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Given the ACBL's penchant for changing the rules to suit the whims of the players, I imagine that sooner or later here the Stop Card Procedure will disappear into the dustbin of history. In the meantime we're stuck with the myriad of players who can't or won't learn to use it properly. Not to mention the opponents who just ignore it. :blink: :( Perhaps the EBU will do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 In the meantime we're stuck with the myriad of players who can't or won't learn to use it properly. I thought the use of the Stop card was optional in the ACBL? Not to mention the opponents who just ignore it. :blink: :( Perhaps the EBU will do better. We have these too. My new thing is to throw the Stop card over my shoulder saying, "Well, I guess I won't be needing this". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 I thought the use of the Stop card was optional in the ACBL?A lot of folks here think so too, but that's not what the regulation says. We have these too. My new thing is to throw the Stop card over my shoulder saying, "Well, I guess I won't be needing this".Heh. Sooner or later, no doubt someone will call the TD and complain that your action has annoyed them. :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Heh. Sooner or later, no doubt someone will call the TD and complain that your action has annoyed them. :ph34r: Yes, I almost added that I will stop once I get in trouble for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejak Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 A lot of folks here think so too, but that's not what the regulation says.The ACBL has officially stated that the Regulation's wording makes it optional. A agree with Ed, but the ACBL does not. Heh. Sooner or later, no doubt someone will call the TD and complain that your action has annoyed them. :ph34r:First time she tries it against me .... :( Perhaps not at Bournemouth, since we do not play against our team-mates. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Yes, but David, you would always wait after the Stop card was shown...right? So it would be needed, and the reaction wouldn't happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Yes, but David, you would always wait after the Stop card was shown...right? So it would be needed, and the reaction wouldn't happen? Precisely. I do not anticipate having to throw away my Stop card when playing against David, should I meet him in the pairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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