jahol Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Bidding WJ2000 you open one club (either 12-14 balanced, or 16+ with clubs, or 18+ without any limits regarding distribution). LHO, VULNERABLE against non-vulnerable bids 1 heart withQJx--J10xxx--Jxx-Qx,then your partner bid 1 spade and RHO (also vulnerable :-))..) 2 hearts with xxx--Qxxx--xxxxx--x.The problem is that you with your partner are quipped with the following monster:Axxxx--Kxx--AKQ--xxKx--A--xx--AKJ10xxxx.Still you should be able to find yourselves in 7NT in the end, but your are just normal players, making mistakes (the biggest mistake is to believe your opps, sometimes) and you finish in 6 clubs.The opponents' CC presents 1 heart bid as 10+PC, 5+H. My questions:1) Do you think that the bid made is in agreement with CC? 2) Do you think that the bid can be qualified as psycho?3) If the response to the second question is YES, what are (if any) the consequences? Jahol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 If your going to play artificial systems, than you need to learn to accept the fact that the opponents are going interfere with your auctions. Don't whine about. You aren't going to get much sympathy.In particular, you aren't going to get ANY sympathy if you think that its surprising that a player raises to 2♥ holding 4 card trump support and singleton. Learn to handle interferance better. In answer to your questions: 1. Players convention cards typically provide defenses against standard openings rather than random conventional openings. Many players prefer to treat a Polish Club as a Precision Club and adopt very aggressive overcalls. The fact that the CC says 10+ HCP is not necessarily material. 2. Without knowing the plairs actual agreements regarding overcalls of Polish type 1♣ openings, its impossible to determine whether the bid in question is a pysche. 3. If the opponents bid was a psyche, there are no "consequences". Pysches are legal and protected parts of the game. The ONLY way in which you are entitled to an adjusted is if the opponents had a concealed partnership agreement, however, these are very difficult to prove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 It doesnt matter if you call it psych or not, it wont help you at all.psyches are part of bridge.IF the cc say overcalls show 10+ its a bit weird because i dont know ppl who play 10+ such overcalls, but even so it still it doesnt mean they play it over art 1c, and you can always ask if you arent sure. so i doesnt consider this a psych bid. and one more thing, if you didnt ask or look at the cc during the bidding and only looked later to find they show 10+, it wont help you because their system wasnt part of your judgment in the bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahol Posted November 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Just to know--I am completely OK with 2H raise. But the 1H bid seems to me to be awful...also from own partnership perspective. The destruction potential of this bid is very very limited and the potencial for cooperation with partner is the same case. But my contribution is not about this..... Just one more question....If I bid American Standard (I like and bid it frequently, both SAYC and 2/1), is the 1H call that OKay now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 You can't stop people from making poor overcalls. Just because you have a good hand, you do not have a "right" to an unimpeded auction. Richard is correct- work on your action over intervention and learn to use the opponents' intervention for your own benefit. On the hand you show, you have a very easy 3C bid and it should not be difficult to find 7N now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Richard got the answer 100% right, even on you are not going to get much sympathy. My overcalls change in response to a precision 1♣ and I treat polish 1♣ opening bids just the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Yes, same oppinion here. The only difference is that I treat a Polish ♣ somewhere between a strong ♣ and a natural ♣, so in any case you get more intervention than playing natural, but not the pure destructive bids I have opposite a strong ♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothy Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Who the hell is Richard B) Obviously i have been away too long Ben :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Since the convention card says "10+ points", there is a case for saying overcaller violated partnership agreements and psyched. HOWEVER, it is common-sense that nebulous unlimited openings often attract very weak overcalls, which makes the actual overcall normal. Redress is not impossible, but you'd have to convince director that:1. Opponents have an undisclosed agreement to overcall artificial 1C on very weak hands.2. That failure to inform your side correctly led had the direct consequence of your side missing grand slam. Being a director myself, I don't think you have a strong enough case for redress, so most of the time I would rule result stands. I would however, warn offenders to fill out the "vs artificial openings" field correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahol Posted November 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 I did not call for TD, of course. As I mentioned, in THIS board, missing grand was just coincidence of partne's faillure and another failure of mine. I do not know if I am not able to express what I would like, but this board is just only a good example of general tendency. This tendency, which was fully confirmed within the discussion here, is: If the opponents bid artificial club or whatever, we are generally allowed to bid not quite in a coincidence with CC to punish those bad artificial guys. I do not think that this approach is ethical, although it is everyday reality. Regarding psycho, I use it too and like it. However, the problem with psycho begins as soon as it becomes so much frequent, that the partner of psyching bidder can expect it better than the opponents. By the way, I am not calling here neither for mercy nor for sympathy (as I was accused several times). Seems to me that some of the responders suspect me that I am writing this just to show my bad opponents (in that board) the record of this discussion to tell them that they did wrong. That was not my intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spwdo Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Slothy wrote : " Who the hell is Richard" Richard is hrothgar Slothy wrote : Obviously i have been away too long Ben :unsure As a member of an bound to extinct group called FOA i must let you know whatour commander in chief chief Uday wrote :"Now, things are quiet, and thats the way we like them. IIRC, part of the "negotiated settlement" that lead to our own "Roadmap for peace" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben47 Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 Is it psycho to overcall here? Yes. But don't argue with success :)Is it a psyche bid? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTodd13 Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 For me, it is becoming increasing fruitful to ignore the opponent's bidding, at least on BBO. A week or so ago I opened 1N in second suit (non-vul versus vul) and my LHO overcalled 2♣ natural with 2434 and 7 HCP!!! Needless to say, I took a couple of losing finesses in utter amazement. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 I usually trust whoever is more reliable, and sometimes opps are more reliable than partner, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothy Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 Is it psycho to overcall here? Yes. But don't argue with success :rolleyes:Is it a psyche bid? No. Dear Gerb, Sometimes when people psyche/o you do feel this Hitchcockian desire, especially if the psycher is a woman, to invade her shower and stab her repeatedly - a minimum of about 12 times - with the stereo in the background playing fantastic rhythmical music (wearing a wig is optional).... May i say that, i personally, dont recommend it. And if any children read this thread...DONT do it to Mom!! but yes according to Oxford English Dictionary the definition is:- psyche n. v. : to make a bid in bridge that is unrepresentative of your hand, usually short in a suit bid. Psycher: a person who psyches. (from Polish : psycho ) (actualy made it up but it sounds so kewl) according to Devils Dictionary psyche: to make a bid that is unrepresentative of ones hand. Psychers seek a flurry of congratulations off partner if it pays off and offer humble apologies that they pulled out the wrong card if it back-fires. In the first instance they lose their partner because they are perceived as moronic, in the second instance they lose their partner as they are perceived as liars. Hope that it is illuminating for you Sloffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbreath Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 Hinice to see you found yr pen again Alex, or are you writing with toe dipped in badger-blood? ;) Agree with Ron on this ! (Again! .. becoming a nasty habit) .. with my regular p we bid on anything over a strong 1C system .. but of course opps are entitled to know this... y gotta be prepared for it. The approach-forcing players arent going to let y ask each-other where yr 3rd-round controls are these days. Good Luck .. whack them occassionally ..that'll make them think :) Rgds Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 "Agree with Ron on this ! (Again! .. becoming a nasty habit)" Of course, Martin, you are a very fine player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted November 6, 2004 Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 "Agree with Ron on this ! (Again! .. becoming a nasty habit)" Of course, Martin, you are a very fine player. modesty becomes you... at least that's my theory ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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