ATB

[bd71]

[hv=pc=n&s=sa5hak5d983cq9543&n=skj92h64d2cakjt86&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1c1s2sp3s(stopper%20ask)p3nppp]266|200[/hv]

 

Team game. 2/1.

 

Lucky to lose only 10 IMPs vs. 6♣ at other table when they didn't take their 6 ♦ tricks off the top against 3N.

[dwar0123]

I think south gave up on clubs to quickly, it would have taken very little to prod north into heading towards slam. If 3♠ asks for a stopper, I am not sure what else north can do but show it.

 

I think you had an entire level of the auction to play with before trying to sign off in 3nt and south just skipped over it.

[aguahombre]

Since we had 2C to show a spade control and clubs at first opportunity (and later the splinter), this one was relatively easy. But apparently that is not the OP condition, so content to listen.

[Cthulhu D]

I'm presuming 2S was a good club raise? So North knows he's sitting on a 10 card fit, but south only knows about 8? North's bidding looks like a 13-14 weak NT, so south is not going to know how to pull.

[aguahombre]

I'm presuming 2S was a good club raise? So North knows he's sitting on a 10 card fit, but south only knows about 8? North's bidding looks like a 13-14 weak NT, so south is not going to know how to pull.

I don't understand that. North knows about 9 clubs, and South knows about ten if the 2S bid shows five. I doubt 2S could be as few as 3 clubs.

[jjbrr]

tough hand. i think 3♠ is a bad bid.

[rduran1216]

2S is just forcing without 4H, without a 5 card diamond suit, etc.

 

I think south should try 4C. North has a hand that chose not to bid 3NT over 1S, must be because he has good long clubs, and now South's hand is worth a try.

[HighLow21]

This is a tough one, but I tend to ATB North the most. He's hyperstrong in clubs, and has 3 small red cards. Whatever partner's holding in clubs, North should assume no club losers and at most one spade loser. South cannot know any of this. I actually think a 4♦ splinter is far better than 2♠. Then South cues 4♥, North bids 4NT, RKCB, finds out they have 4 keys, and bids 6♣.

 

Edit: or would 3♦ be a splinter?

Edited March 28, 2012 by HighLow21

[BunnyGo]

tough hand. i think 3♠ is a bad bid.

 

This.

 

I think that South is:

 

a) not so sure about diamond stoppers either

b) not so sure clubs is worth avoiding

c) can show all this by cuebidding hearts.

[P_Marlowe]

We would not reach slam.

 

Sry - North is looking at KJ in their suit, ok the finess is

working, ..., assuming partner has 2 spades to make the finesses.

 

And if he has, East may have a single.

 

Did they reach slam on the other table after a 1S overcall?

If yes, lets play more often against them.

 

Harder is the question, how to get to 5C, avoiding 3NT.

 

The start of the auction seems clear upto 2S.

 

I dont like 3S, but can understand, if South is not willing to

commit the partnership to 3NT with only Ax, I would, but Ax is

not the best stopper.

 

Most would play 2S as inv.+ with fit, hence South is actually to

weak to accept the invite, and could bid 3C.

If 2S was game forcing, than he still could bid 3C to see what

partner is up to.

He is not only concerned about spades, but also about diamonds.

If Partner showes diamond values, he has heart values, that can be

bid.

 

So in hinsight, 3C would cover most / if not all of your bases.

 

If it comes to ATB - it took some time to get the argument for 3C

together, so ..., most of the blame goes to East / West, the timing

of the 1S overcall was good.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Codo]

1 ♣ great

2 ♠ systemic- a better description of the hand would be a 3 ♦ splinter, but even if you have this tool avaiable, this usually shows a stronger hand.

3♠ (what else? You have enough for game but you will often need help in spades.)

3 NT (what else, Spades are no problem...)

 

 

So, I had bid the same way given your methoods. They bid a suit where I have six cards and 3 top Honours but not a suit, where we hold just four small cards. This happens- but quite seldom.

[ahydra]

Slams on thin values are always hard to find. Here I think North can just about upgrade to a 3D splinter and then south should really like his hand, despite it being a balanced 13 - xxx is as close to a perfect holding in the splinter suit as you can get, and the side AAK is awesome.

 

What I don't get about the original auction is why bid 3S asking for a stop when you already have one ;)

 

ahydra

[Cyberyeti]

Yet another "we opened a short club, couldn't raise it and missed the right spot" thread.

 

We play a 4 card club, and excluding the fact that we'd open a weak no trump, we play 1♣-(1♠)-2♣ as still inverted F1 not denying 4M. I'd have thought playing a short club there's even more of a case for still playing this inverted.

 

I'd mainly put this down to system.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I actually think a 4♦ splinter is far better than 2♠.

 

Edit: or would 3♦ be a splinter?

 

4D! is the splinter

3D! would be a fit-showing-jump ( in competition ) .

[Cthulhu D]

I don't understand that. North knows about 9 clubs, and South knows about ten if the 2S bid shows five. I doubt 2S could be as few as 3 clubs.

 

Sorry, I had north and south reversed, I misread the bidding.

[wyman]

This is a tough one, but I tend to ATB North the most. He's hyperstrong in clubs, and has 3 small red cards. Whatever partner's holding in clubs, North should assume no club losers and at most one spade loser. South cannot know any of this. I actually think a 4♦ splinter is far better than 2♠. Then South cues 4♥, North bids 4NT, RKCB, finds out they have 4 keys, and bids 6♣.

 

Edit: or would 3♦ be a splinter?

 

So north should cater to the times when south holds exactly AK A in the reds by splintering and bypassing 3N rather than keeping the auction low, finding out if partner is a min (3C) and keeping 3N in play? Surely south is not a favorite to have the spade ace on this auction. This is a vulnerable 1S overcall. A void? Could be, but we'll hear about that soon enough (either by partner or by east!). So we are looking for both red aces, a red king to cover our other red loser, and we have to dodge spade to the ace and a ruff: partner can certainly be 3xx3/4/5 or 2xx3/4/5 with west holding 6 spades. Hell, we might go down off the top in 5 clubs -- 2 aces and a ruff.

 

Point is, given only north's hand and the auction thru 1S, are NS more likely (with practical considerations, including the lead) to make 3N or 6C, I think the answer is 3N. And in any case, 2S is flexible. It doesn't say that we can't play 6C. But the auction is over at 3S imo. What else can north do?

 

And 3D is not a splinter in these auctions. Most play that 3D is fit-showing, some play that it's weak.

[wyman]

Yet another "we opened a short club, couldn't raise it and missed the right spot" thread.

 

We play a 4 card club, and excluding the fact that we'd open a weak no trump, we play 1♣-(1♠)-2♣ as still inverted F1 not denying 4M. I'd have thought playing a short club there's even more of a case for still playing this inverted.

 

I'd mainly put this down to system.

 

afaik, the club is 3+, and 2S was a club raise (5+, limit+).

[wyman]

Did they reach slam on the other table after a 1S overcall?

If yes, lets play more often against them.

Yes.

 

1C (1S) 2S (P)

2N 4D

blah blah blah

[ggwhiz]

the 2nt bid followed by the splinter is a good auction but you should have survived after the 3♠ bid too.

 

A method that requires a 3nt bid with Norths red suits is just plain wrong at imps. North knows the 3♠ bidder has very little in the black suits and should bid 4♣ and probably cue to slam from there.

[kayin801]

I don't really like 3♠, I would just bid 2NT or 3♣, but I hate 3NT. It's not MP, we have AKJ 6th in opener's suit, what holdings can partner really have where 5♣ isn't just as good, if not better than 3NT? The shorter opener's clubs the longer his spades, which lends to our spade honors being well-placed (though makes us susceptible to ruffs). After 3♠ looking for a stopper I'd bid 4♦ which can't really be taken as anything but a diamond cue for clubs. Yes, it's weird that we have AKJ in overcaller's suit, but if we didn't we'd still likely only have one spade loser and we'd have points elsewhere. Slam is almost as good when S has the other pointed ace and 5♣ is still pretty good if those 4 points are gone altogether.

[han]

As others have mentioned, 3S was a really bad bid. Not only does it take up a whole level without showing anything (or if it does show something, south doesn't have it), but it also prevents you from playing 3NT from the south. After the 1S overcall, that is likely at least as good as from the north.

[mikeh]

I think this is a tough hand, as others have pointed out.

 

The first two calls are routine...even if 3♦ were available as a splinter, it wouldn't be my choice.....let's keep the bidding lower until partner has some chance to describe his hand.

 

It would be useful, in terms of critiquing the auction, to know if 2♠ was gf or merely limit+.

 

It shouldn't impact opener's second bid: he has an easy 2N, which is descriptive and cheap...always a great combination. 3♠ is neither.....how on earth can S 'know' that 3N is the right contract opposite a spade stopper? Meanwhile, by using up the entire 3-level, he is jamming partner's bidding space.

 

Now, if 2♠ were gf, N could bid a quiet 3♣ to get cuebidding going while preserving the chances of 3N. But if 2♠ were only limit+, N has to make some other call, since 3♣ could and should be passed by S.

 

I really don't like the idea of 3N, but splintering isn't risk-free.

 

Give opener Q10x AQx Kxx Qxxx and we can see that 3N is the last makeable game, and wouldn't opener bid the same way through 2N?

 

Otoh, opener might hold the spade A, might be wide open in a red suit, and they might not find the spade ruff anyway, so I think, on balance, that the splinter is the way to go, after which S's hand grows up enormously.

[mike777]

south should rebid 2nt not 3s

 

Now I think north has a huge hand after 2nt

 

 

even after 3s I think north should do more than 3nt at imps.

 

I mean where are souths points? How bad can 5c be?

[y66]

Posts like that last one by mikeh on threads like this are what keep me hooked on this forum.

[Cyberyeti]

Yet another "we opened a short club, couldn't raise it and missed the right spot" thread.

 

We play a 4 card club, and excluding the fact that we'd open a weak no trump, we play 1♣-(1♠)-2♣ as still inverted F1 not denying 4M. I'd have thought playing a short club there's even more of a case for still playing this inverted.

 

I'd mainly put this down to system.

 

 

afaik, the club is 3+, and 2S was a club raise (5+, limit+).

Yes but it consumes a lot of space, when you can start 1♣-(1♠)-2♣-P-2♦(artificial ask) as we play you have a lot more space for investigation.

 

Our system of responses doesn't work in the context of possibly short club and a possible weak no trump type hand, I don't think you can handle F1 and may contain a major over this, so assuming FG and may have a major, you can have an auction like:

 

1♣-(1♠)-2♣-2♦!-2N(weak NT)-3♣-3♥(stop) which pinpoints the diamond issue