Quartic Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Finally, we managed to play in a 4-2 fit after some interference: [hv=pc=n&s=sak95hj93dk8cakj4&w=sqhaq8764da7c9752&n=sj3ht2dqj52cqt863&e=st87642hk5dt9643c&d=e&v=b&b=10&a=p1s3hppdp3sppp]399|300[/hv] 3♠ was duly down 3. We play 4 card majors (Acol), so 1♠ was systemic. Should North bid 4♣, or should South pull 3♠? Can we defend for +200? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I don't want to comment too strongly, since I don't play ACOL, but if south has only promised 4 spades, I find it hard to believe that 3S can be right by north. When my partner makes a takeout double, and I have a 5-card suit, I tend not to bid a 2 card suit... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 3S by Nth is ridiculous as you could be, (are), facing a 4 carder. Nth should bid 4C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 For me South's double is made on the understanding that partner will bid assuming they are 5133 plus 1 card. That makes both 3♠ and 4♣ reasonable but give North 1354 - where is South going on a 4♦ response? I suspect it is worth Ave+ or better to defend in 100s here - this is often the case when we have a big balanced hand with 3 cards in their suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I don't know much ACOL but I though this hand was opened in 1♣. South should pass 3♥, and north should take out to a suit he can play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I don't know much ACOL but I though this hand was opened in 1♣.You open 1♣ in, for example, Swiss Acol but 1♠ in Modern English Acol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 IMO, South can foresee a problem and avoid it. His hand is very nice, but if he just counts the number of hearts he holds and partner's failure to call, just staying fixed is probably a good idea. I don't know the advantages of opening 1S vs 1C in ACOL with 4-3-2-4; but it seems to have disadvantages when the strength is this much. If North is, in fact, supposed to bid 4C with the given hand ---is opener supposed to sit with 4-3-4-2, 5-3-4-1? Wouldn't these complications demand the use of 3N after the double as a scramble? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighLow21 Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I don't like the takeout double nearly as much as I like 4♣ by South. But face it: West's preemptive 3♥ was both ridiculous and extremely effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartic Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 IMO, South can foresee a problem and avoid it. His hand is very nice, but if he just counts the number of hearts he holds and partner's failure to call, just staying fixed is probably a good idea. I don't know the advantages of opening 1S vs 1C in ACOL with 4-3-2-4; but it seems to have disadvantages when the strength is this much. If North is, in fact, supposed to bid 4C with the given hand ---is opener supposed to sit with 4-3-4-2, 5-3-4-1? Wouldn't these complications demand the use of 3N after the double as a scramble? I used to open 1♣ with hands like this, but a lot of the good players at my club play it the other way, and I'm following their advice (I wasn't South here, but I would have opened it 1♠). I think the main advantage is it gets our major into the picture quickly when we have a fit. Unfortunately, as here, it can lead to difficulties when we don't have a fit in the major. I'm not yet completely convinced that 1♠ is better than 1♣, but I don't think it's clear-cut. I'm still not sure what my best bid as North is after partner doubles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmnka447 Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 North can't sit for the Dbl with the poor hand held. Since 1 ♠ could be bid on 4 ♠s, I think there is no other choice then to bid 4 ♣. If playing ♠s is right then South should have bid ♠s in stead of Dbling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squealydan Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Re-opening doubles are meant to show shape, not points. The more opposition trumps and the more points opener holds, the less likely it is that partner has made a trap pass. South should expect partner to respond 4♦ which doesn't look like the ideal place to be. South should pass. As north, bid 4♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 I don't know much ACOL but I though this hand was opened in 1♣. South should pass 3♥, and north should take out to a suit he can play. Certainly most Australian Acolites would open this 1C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 having played acol on a serious basis, i think you should play 5cM style when 18-19, otherwise open the major. 1m is therefore 18-19 bal or 4+. 4cM works much better with a strong NT though - that way your 1M openings become pre-empts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Clearly there is something systemically wrong here. 1) I would NEVER pass out 3♥ with the South hand.2) If this hand is to be opened 1♠ by system, then North cannot bid 3♠.3) If North has a right to expect 5 spades in the South hand on this auction, then South cannot open 1♠. Because of the systemic matters involved in determining the proper opening bid, I cannot assign the blame. Either the 1♠ opening is wrong, or the 3♠ call is wrong. By the way, another question that was asked was can you defend for +200. Since East-West have 8 tricks on any defense, the question becomes can North pass the double of 3♥? I don't see how he can, since South would make the same double if he held: AKQxx----KxxxAxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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