Instructive hand

[Free]

Recently I encountered the following hand, it's quite instructive for intermediates imo:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sa9hakt63daq73ca4&n=s52hqj975dk652c85]133|200[/hv]

 

Suppose RHO preempted heavily in ♠ and South ended up playing 5♥. LHO leads ♠Q. How do you plan the play?

[Antrax]

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot to do here. Win the ♠A, draw trumps, and play ♦A. What happens now? How many hearts did RHO start with and what does he play on the ♦?

[Free]

Win the ♠A, draw trumps, and play ♦A. What happens now? ~snip~ and what does he play on the ♦?

Both opps follow.

 

RHO has a singleton ♦, so he'll show out if you play another round

 

 

How many hearts did RHO start with

Actually, that's irrelevant.

[y66]

If diamonds break and RHO has KJTxxx(x) of spades and a singleton club, I can make this if I can throw him in with a spade after stripping hearts, diamonds and clubs from his hand whence he must give me a ruff and sluff.

 

SA, draw trump, cash diamonds, CA, S9.

[mike777]

if lho has 4d I will try :

AS

PULL TRUMP

4 ROUNDS OF D.

HOPE LHO IS OUT OF SPADES AND HAS TO WIN SECOND CLUB.

[kayin801]

You have an 100% line if RHO has the KJ10 of spades, AND you can discover the bad diamond break first by cashing only 2 of them after winning the spade A and drawing trumps.

[mike777]

 

You have an 100% line if RHO has the KJ10 of spades, AND you can discover the bad diamond break first by cashing only 2 of them after winning the spade A and drawing trumps.

 

 

 

 

 

good hand.

[ArtK78]

Come on folks. I just looked at this thread and I don't see the right answer yet.

[MrAce]

Seems to me RHO has KJT 8th♠, only that makes sense for a very heavy preempt when someone missing the A and Q of his suit.

 

I clear trumps, cash 2♦ and see 4-1 (assuming LHO has 4)

 

Play A and another ♣;

 

-If LHO takes this and exits with ♦, then i play ♠ and endplay RHO for ruff and sluff

 

-If RHO takes ♣, he can cash a ♠ and endplayed again for ruff and sluff.

 

Are we supposed to hide our answers ? I didnt see OP asking us to hide, or am i missing something ?

[ArtK78]

This seems like an acceptable answer, but I would only have cashed one diamond. Either way, it works.

[Antrax]

That's what I had in mind. How come seeing how many hearts each started with and what diamond RHO has to see what endplay(s) have play is irrelevant?

[rmnka447]

There is a reason to cash 2 ♦ tricks after drawing trump.

 

The hand always makes if ♦s are 3-2. The problem is when ♦s are 4-1.

 

So cashing the second ♦ honor tells you who that is. The vast majority of the time it will be the preemptor's partner.

But there is a small but certain percentage of the time that the preemptor will hold the 4 ♦s.

 

It's important because that can affect the order of card play to execute the throw in.

[gnasher]

Seems to me RHO has KJT 8th♠, only that makes sense for a very heavy preempt when someone missing the A and Q of his suit.

It doesn't matter how many spades he has, as long as he has KJ10.

[MrAce]

It doesn't matter how many spades he has, as long as he has KJ10.

 

I didnt say it matters, although it sounds like that, when i read my post.

 

 

This seems like an acceptable answer, but I would only have cashed one diamond. Either way, it works.

 

You HAVE to cash 2♦ for 2 reasons

 

- It doesnt hurt

 

- Preemptor may hold KJTxxxx x JT9x K and you go down by cashing only 1♦ and not knowing who has 4 ;)

 

If you see preemptor with 4♦, your only chance is to also find him with only one club. You clear trumps, cash 2 ♦ see he has 4, then cash ♣A and give him 4th ♦ forcing him to play ruff and sluff after he cashes his ♠ winner.

[ArtK78]

I have to admit, I did not consider the possibility that the spade hand had 4 diamonds. In that case, you are right, you have to eliminate the spade suit first before throwing in LHO with A and another club. So cashing 2 diamonds is required to figure out the order of play of the black suits.

 

Since you did not provide us with the break in the heart suit, there is a chance that there is no successful throw-in. RHO could have:

 

KJTxxxx

---

JT98

Kx

 

If that is the case, you cannot throw in the hand with the diamond shortness.

 

Odds are that RHO is short in diamonds (if anyone is) so cashing one diamond will be sufficient, but it is true that cashing 2 diamonds is better on this hand.

 

This problem has often been presented with declarer's side holding stronger diamonds, so that the opponents cannot lead the diamond suit back. For example, suppose the opps diamonds were JT8xx combined. Now you can cash one diamond and throw the opps in, since if they have to lead diamonds back they will give up their diamond trick.

[MrAce]

I have to admit, I did not consider the possibility that the spade hand had 4 diamonds. In that case, you are right, you have to eliminate the spade suit first before throwing in LHO with A and another club. So cashing 2 diamonds is required to figure out the order of play of the black suits.

 

Since you did not provide us with the break in the heart suit, there is a chance that there is no successful throw-in. RHO could have:

 

KJTxxxx

---

JT98

Kx

 

If that is the case, you cannot throw in the hand with the diamond shortness.

 

Odds are that RHO is short in diamonds (if anyone is) so cashing one diamond will be sufficient, but it is true that cashing 2 diamonds is better on this hand.

 

This problem has often been presented with declarer's side holding stronger diamonds, so that the opponents cannot lead the diamond suit back. For example, suppose the opps diamonds were JT8xx combined. Now you can cash one diamond and throw the opps in, since if they have to lead diamonds back they will give up their diamond trick.

 

Yes, Kayin said there is a % 100 line after seeing 4-1 ♦, i am still trying to find one but i cant. I assume he meant "if LHO has 4♦"

[Fluffy]

100%? if LHO has ♠QJ there is no line that succeeds.

[Free]

The obvious start is to draw trumps first, we have enough of them anyway. It doesn't really matter if they are 3-0 or 2-1 (either way), because you either need a 3-2 break in ♦ or something "exotic".

 

There's no problem with playing 2 rounds of ♦ to check them. When they break 3-2 the hand is over. On the hand in question LHO has 4 of them and RHO has singleton, which makes the hand interesting (imo). Same applies if they split 5-0 btw.

 

When ♦ don't split 3-2, you need to get rid of one, and because of mirror distributions the only means is a ruff and sluff. Therefore you'll need to eliminate all suits and endplay RHO, so he'll have to play a ♠ (or ♣). The only suit that gives us a reasonable chance to endplay RHO is ♠, so we'll have to exit with ♣s first and hope RHO has ♠KJT. It doesn't matter if he has 5, 6, 7 or 8 of them, he just needs KJT (the only cards higher than our 9), a reasonable assumption.

 

So, after drawing trumps and playing 2 rounds of ♦, you have to play ♣A and ♣x. It doesn't matter if LHO wins this trick, we still have one control in the ♦ suit. If LHO returns a ♦, we win and play ♠9 hoping that RHO has to win this trick. If LHO leads ♠ himself, again, we just hope RHO has to win the trick. When RHO wins his ♠ trick, all he has left are ♠s and ♣s, while we don't have any of these anymore. B-)

 

Note that playing a 3rd round of ♦ is a huge error, because you still have to lose a ♣ before the endplay. It's also a mistake to play a small ♣ first (instead of the Ace). That would give opps the opportunity to win, play 1 round of ♠s and exit a ♣ (destroying the endplay).

[MrAce]

There's no problem with playing 2 rounds of ♦ to check them. When they break 3-2 the hand is over. On the hand in question LHO has 4 of them and RHO has singleton, which makes the hand interesting (imo). Same applies if they split 5-0 btw.

 

I assume you didnt read the replies to your own post.

 

"There's no problem with cashing 2 rounds of ♦" is understatement. It is mandatory to cash 2♦ for several reasons.

 

- As you said it doesnt hurt.

 

- You can try to make 12 tricks if you see 3-2 break.

 

- You go down while there is a legit play, if you cash only 1 round ♦, when RHO has 4 of them instead of LHO.

[HighLow21]

Recently I encountered the following hand, it's quite instructive for intermediates imo:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sa9hakt63daq73ca4&n=s52hqj975dk652c85]133|200[/hv]

 

Suppose RHO preempted heavily in ♠ and South ended up playing 5♥. LHO leads ♠Q. How do you plan the play?

 

Easy. Draw trumps, cash 1 round of diamonds ONLY (hoping for a 3-2 split, if so the contract is simple, but we shouldn't cash 2 rounds yet). Next cash A♣ and exit with a low club.

 

If RHO wins and he returns a diamond, you are golden unless he started with 4 of them. Very unlikely. So assume LHO wins and returns a diamond.

 

Now you exit with a spade. If RHO started with 1 diamond and wins the 2nd spade he is endplayed.

 

Assuming the defenders are weak, you might want to cash 4 rounds of trumps before all this. This allows an ill-advised discard of a diamond with a holder of 4, or a spade by LHO.

[HighLow21]

- You go down while there is a legit play, if you cash only 1 round ♦, when RHO has 4 of them instead of LHO.

Wait, really? Are you going to play RHO for 11 or 12 pointed suit cards?

[MrAce]

Wait, really? Are you going to play RHO for 11 or 12 pointed suit cards?

 

He made a heavy preempt in ♠, and his pd didnt follow 2nd ♦, what do you think RHO has unless his pd revoked ? And what other chances do you have in order to make your contract except than endplaying RHO ?

 

If preemptor has 4♦, there is no way you can get rid of ♦ loser, but you can get rid of ♣ loser.

 

Unless of course you show me where cashing 2nd ♦ loses, i don't even understand why some of you insisted on cashing only 1♦. Am i missing something ?

[kayin801]

Yes, Kayin said there is a % 100 line after seeing 4-1 ♦, i am still trying to find one but i cant. I assume he meant "if LHO has 4♦"

 

Yeah sorry I meant when LHO had 4, obviously RHO can have 4, though if he does, you're still in decent shape, especially if RHO followed to a trump since odds are they have only 1 club. Now you can play your second spade first, guarding against a 7-2 break with fluffy's QJ or Q10 tight, and still come home when LHO has to win the 2nd club and can only return the suit.

 

I'm not sure I have a line to make the contract when the preemptor has K10xxxxx, -, J1098, Kx

[MrAce]

Yeah sorry I meant when LHO had 4, obviously RHO can have 4, though if he does, you're still in decent shape, especially if RHO followed to a trump since odds are they have only 1 club. Now you can play your second spade first, guarding against a 7-2 break with fluffy's QJ or Q10 tight, and still come home when LHO has to win the 2nd club and can only return the suit.

 

I'm not sure I have a line to make the contract when the preemptor has K10xxxxx, -, J1098, Kx

 

When preemptor has 4♦, it doesnt matter which way you play, as long as he has only 1♣.

 

I would play ♣A and ♠, if LHO takes this he can cash a ♣ and plays ruff n sluff. If RHO takes this he can exit with ♦ but i give it right back to him with 4th♦ and plays ruff and sluff. No way to make as you said when preemptor has 4♦+2♣ regardless of what he has in ♠

[HighLow21]

He made a heavy preempt in ♠, and his pd didnt follow 2nd ♦, what do you think RHO has unless his pd revoked ? And what other chances do you have in order to make your contract except than endplaying RHO ?

 

If preemptor has 4♦, there is no way you can get rid of ♦ loser, but you can get rid of ♣ loser.

 

Unless of course you show me where cashing 2nd ♦ loses, i don't even understand why some of you insisted on cashing only 1♦. Am i missing something ?

OK we're saying the same thing actually. (Well, almost.) Only cashing 1 diamond allows for the possibility of a misdefense in addition to legitimate plays. In my mind, a misdefense is far more likely than 4-1 in the minors AND specifically KJT♠ with RHO.

 

That said, some precise definition of "heavy preempt" is in order. I assume it means 3♠ or 4♠, and 7 vs. 8 spades with RHO makes a huge difference.

 

Also, double dummy, there is a way to make 5♥ with the hand I described above while combining other chances. It is to cash one high diamond, exit with a SPADE, win the diamond, cash A♣, and exit with 4th diamond.