Conventions - rules role

[IrishToby]

This is asking if I have the correct understanding of the use of conventions in contract bridge.

 

I skimmed the contract rules, particularly under Auctions, and (unless I missed it) conventions are not mentioned. My general reading, and finding they are not mentioned in the rules leads me to conclude:

 

1. The opposition has the right to know what "agreements" my partnership has about what what our bids mean to us;

2. Conventions are a shorthand way of describing groups of approaches to bidding and what the bids mean; "we" may use multiple conventions (presumably not contradictory?);

3. We would be unethical (violating the rules?) not to follow the conventions we have identified to our opposition;

4. We may not follow an announced convention in a particular bid if we "alert" since it would be unexpected(?); (We must alert?)

5. The opposition may ask what a particular bid means to our partnership (asking the partner of the player bidding).

 

I think I went down a rabbit hole thinking that conventions were part of the rules and must be strictly followed when announced, rather than a descriptive shorthand.

 

As I have written the above it all seems clearer, unless I am told that I have the wrong end of the stick.

[awm]

Maybe an example will help.

 

Suppose I open 1NT. It is popular to play that if partner responds 2♦, that shows hearts rather than diamonds. This is a convention; the normal meaning of a bid of 2♦ would be to show a long diamond suit. In general a convention is an agreement with partner that a particular bid means something other than what it sounds like. Obviously it would be silly to bid 2♦ when holding hearts instead of diamonds, and have partner pass or raise my diamonds!

 

Playing conventions is perfectly legal. However, the opponents are allowed to know when we are doing something like this, as it will effect their bids in many cases. We are required to let the opponents know what's going on. This takes two basic forms:

 

(1) An alert is when we announce immediately to the opponents that an unusual bid has occurred. In a face-to-face game, this takes the form of the bidder's partner saying "alert" and possibly waving an alert card. Why the bidder's partner? If I were to alert my own bid, this could serve to tell partner what I'm doing in case he might have forgotten our convention. Telling partner stuff during the bidding like this is not allowed. On bridgebase, we alert our own bids using the software; it's set up so that when I alert my bid, partner cannot see that I have made the alert. This prevents me from giving partner illegal information, while also informing the opponents that we have agreed to a convention.

 

(2) In addition, the opponents are entitled to ask about any bid we have made in the auction. If I have a special agreement about a bid, I should let them know. This also gives opponents the opportunity to ask about bids that might not require an alert. For example, if I open 1♠ and that shows spades and a reasonable hand, it's not an alert. But opponents still might want to know what my minimum number of spades is (some people have agreed that 1♠ is always at least five, some play that it could be four) or what my minimum and maximum high card strength are. They're allowed to ask; in person they ask my partner but on bridgebase they ask me and I can answer via private chat.

 

In any case, you are allowed to bid whatever you want. You can open 1♠ with zero spades if you want, you can respond 2♦ to partner's 1NT without holding diamonds (or hearts), etc. This is okay as long as partner is also in the dark. In other words, I have to disclose anything partner and I have agreed, but I don't have to disclose what's in my hand. With that said, everyone at the table is usually happier if you try to stick to more or less your agreement. Frequent "psychic bidding" (this is the name for lying or bluffing about what's in your hand via your bids) tends to annoy both partner and opponents.

[IrishToby]

Thank-you. That is a very helpful and clear answer.

 

I take it then that everyone plays with a convention of some selection else the opposition would have to ask every time? Is there a common or default convention? Or is it that there are obvious expected responses to bids that if followed cause no confusion or misunderstanding?

 

Thanks.

 

(I'm sure it is obvious I am completely new to bridge, I expect much will become clearer as I get down the road a bit.)

[awm]

A bidding system is a set of conventions along with other agreements (like the number of spades needed to open 1♠).

 

There are a number of standard or commonly played bidding systems; it typically depends on the country you're from.

 

Probably the most common on bridge base is Standard American (the basic system in the US) which the "Learn to Play Bridge" software provides an excellent introduction to. Other common ones include Acol (UK Standard) and French Standard. More advanced players in established partnerships will often play more complicated systems and/or have additional conventions added to their regional standard.

[jjbrr]

Thank-you. That is a very helpful and clear answer.

 

I take it then that everyone plays with a convention of some selection else the opposition would have to ask every time? Is there a common or default convention? Or is it that there are obvious expected responses to bids that if followed cause no confusion or misunderstanding?

 

Thanks.

 

(I'm sure it is obvious I am completely new to bridge, I expect much will become clearer as I get down the road a bit.)

 

In a duplicate bridge event, each pair may play their own selection of methods/conventions and it is possible that no two pairs are playing the same set of conventions.

 

Many conventions, though, are very common and generally standard. As Adam mentioned, following a 1NT opener, many people play "transfers", that is that a 2♦ bid shows ♥, per his example. Another common convention you might know is stayman. So when you sit down with a new partner on BBO, there are many bids that you can expect him to interpret correctly.

 

It would be possible that the opponents are playing a convention you've never encountered before, and yes, you might require them to explain every bid they make. This can be a bit of a nuisance, but as you get more experienced in bridge it will become much less overwhelming. Further complicating things is that people in different regions or countries play conventions differently. What may be completely normal in your part of the world might be completely foreign in another, so it's never safe to assume your bid will be interpreted correctly.

 

With a regular partner, though, you can go over your bidding system thoroughly and make sure you're always on the same page for each bid you make. This is obviously more enjoyable than trying to guess what a new partner is intending.

 

So to summarize a bit, there is no requirement of everyone to play the same conventions, but in general many of the pairs in a given competition will play a similar approach to one another. Successful partnerships are the ones who spend time making sure that each member of the pair understands what the other's bids mean.

[BunnyGo]

Welcome to the forums.

 

It seems awm and jjbrr have already answered your questions. I'd like to second awm's suggestion of looking at "Learn to play bridge" software as it's free, and it can take you from someone who doesn't know (or barely knows) the rules to a better than average BBO player if you learn everything in it.

 

-Ben

[jjbrr]

One more thing I will say that I think is important for new players.

 

Don't worry too much about conventions yet; they'll just get in the way. Focus more on card play and make sure you have a strong foundation in declarer play, defense, and signalling.

 

Part of being a good bidder is understanding how the play of the hand might go, and if you can't play the hands well, then it doesn't matter what set of conventions you play. Many players use conventions as a crutch, and overall it hurts them as a bridge player. Obviously it's important to understand conventions so that you know what the opponents are doing and such, but for now the primary focus should be on getting better at the play of the hand.

[JustaDummy]

On bridgebase, we alert our own bids using the software; it's set up so that when I alert my bid, partner cannot see that I have made the alert.

I didn't know that! Neat. Can I ask a quick question without hijacking the thread? If I'm kibitzing South and North makes an alert on BBO, will I see it?

[daveharty]

I take it then that everyone plays with a convention of some selection else the opposition would have to ask every time? Is there a common or default convention?

As you say, the opponents must be made aware of what our agreements are regarding the meaning of our bids, "conventional" or otherwise. In a face-to-face bridge event, this is normally accomplished by filling out a "convention card" for the opponents to peruse. The convention card is a convenient way to organize information about the conventions you and your partner have agreed to play. Here is the official convention card for people who use the bidding system called "Standard American Yellow Card" (SAYC). If you look at the card, you will see a variety of conventions listed and organized by category. For example, "Gerber" and "Blackwood" are common conventions for investigating potential slams, and you will see them listed in the "Slam Conventions" section. In the "Notrump Opening Bids" section, you will see "2♣ Non-Forcing Stayman"; this is one of the first conventions that most bridge players learn.

 

As jjbr suggests, I wouldn't worry about learning a bunch of conventions at first; even the SAYC contains extraneous stuff. As you learn to bid, you will begin to learn a few conventions organically, as you come across bidding situations that are difficult to deal with with completely natural bidding. When you find yourself saying "It sure would be nice if there was a bid available that meant _________", then you are on the road to understanding the role of conventions.

[jjbrr]

Think of a convention card as like a menu of the conventions you play. There are different sections for the different "courses" (opening bids, leads, signals, competitive bidding, etc) and you check off the items that you and your partner have agreed to play so that the opponents will know what you're doing, even before you make a bid.

[JustaDummy]

Welcome to the forums.

 

It seems awm and jjbrr have already answered your questions. I'd like to second awm's suggestion of looking at "Learn to play bridge" software as it's free, and it can take you from someone who doesn't know (or barely knows) the rules to a better than average BBO player if you learn everything in it.

 

-Ben

+1

 

I'm going through LTPB right now and it's just great (AFAIK it's PC only, though). Apart from the well-structured presentation, he reinforces each key point consistently, presents good examples and provides quizzes for you to test your knowledge. In addition, all the specialist Bridge terms are highlighted, and simply rolling over the word pops up an explanation of the term. Then, the menu / chapter structure makes it very easy to browse around, repeat sections, etc. Super piece of work.

 

As Ben said elsewhere, it's a bit dry, but it's a goldmine! I've started taking notes so that I'm being more active in my learning - it's very easy to just scan through the material without really taking it all in!

[IrishToby]

Thanks for all the responses, much appreciated. I have downloaded the learning software and am on my way.

[wyman]

I didn't know that! Neat. Can I ask a quick question without hijacking the thread? If I'm kibitzing South and North makes an alert on BBO, will I see it?

 

Yes, kibitizers see all alerts.

[paua]

This is asking if I have the correct understanding of the use of conventions in contract bridge.

 

I skimmed the contract rules, particularly under Auctions, and (unless I missed it) conventions are not mentioned. My general reading, and finding they are not mentioned in the rules leads me to conclude:

 

1. The opposition has the right to know what "agreements" my partnership has about what what our bids mean to us;

2. Conventions are a shorthand way of describing groups of approaches to bidding and what the bids mean; "we" may use multiple conventions (presumably not contradictory?);

3. We would be unethical (violating the rules?) not to follow the conventions we have identified to our opposition;

4. We may not follow an announced convention in a particular bid if we "alert" since it would be unexpected(?); (We must alert?)

5. The opposition may ask what a particular bid means to our partnership (asking the partner of the player bidding).

 

I think I went down a rabbit hole thinking that conventions were part of the rules and must be strictly followed when announced, rather than a descriptive shorthand.

 

As I have written the above it all seems clearer, unless I am told that I have the wrong end of the stick.

 

Hi, welcome. Yes, you are correct on all points. :) Point 4. I read as - "if we *DO NOT* alert" ...

 

The word "convention" is very very misleading. It has thankfully been taken out of the new 2007 Laws. Think in terms of "partnership agreements". And although we call these agreements by names (Stayman, Transfers, Blackwood) they should be explained in plain words, not just giving the name of the 'convention'. Insist on this.

[Lesh18]

I have a QUERY on this:

 

Regarding the fact that my opponents have to know all information that my partner knows:

Am I suppoed to tell them things like 1♥ opening promises 12+ HCP points and at least a 5-card suit? I mean, do they have to know all the HCP points requirements that we use? For instance, that an simple overcall on the second level promises 10+ HCP and 4-card suit...

 

Basically, do I have to tell my opponents literally everything my partner knows? Including all HCP and suit distributions requirements for particular bids?

[Stephen Tu]

Am I suppoed to tell them things like 1♥ opening promises 12+ HCP points and at least a 5-card suit? I mean, do they have to know all the HCP points requirements that we use?

 

Basically, do I have to tell my opponents literally everything my partner knows? Including all HCP and suit distributions requirements for particular bids?

 

If they ask specifically for the information, yes you do have to disclose this. A lot of things though are considered "usual", and "common bridge knowledge", and the opponents won't usually ask what it is. So if you open 1h and this is 12+ points and 5 cd suit, you don't have to say anything special, opponents are expected to know this is typical, and only 1 in ten thousand would ask you. If they do ask you what 1h is though, then say something like 5+ hearts, 12+ pts, 11+ high-card points.

 

But if you play something very unusual, like some system where you open very weak hands, like routinely on 8-9 points, instead of 12, you have to alert the opponents. Online you would self-alert, offline you would alert partner's bids, and sometimes (as in the case of super-weak openings), pre-alert before play that your system is unusual. Generally you alert things that are unusual strength range than other people, and artificial bids that show something other than the suit named, like Jacoby transfers. There are a few conventional things like stayman (1nt-2c, 2nt-3c), and strong 2c opening, that are considered so universal, that an alert is not required in many jurisdictions, and in fact playing it natural and non-forcing requires an alert. But it depends where you are; stayman would be considered non-alert in America and BBO online, but it is alertable in England.

 

In offline tournaments one is required to have a piece of paper called a "convention card" which contains the basic information for the opponents, like what strength your 1nt opener is, how many cards your one of suit openings promise, what your strong forcing opening is, etc. In online games/tournaments, you can fill out electronic convention card that does essentially the same thing, if not, the opps are entitled to assume you are playing something roughly SAYC-ish (5cd major, strong NT). Some online tournaments will require a convention card to be filled in. If you are playing online game, you should alert opps to anything unusual, and inform them what it is via the alert chat box or private chat, and answer their queries using private chat.

 

For instance, that an simple overcall on the second level promises 10+ HCP and 4-card suit...

Piece of bridge advice ... don't overcall opponent's 1 openings at the 2 level on a 4 card suit; this will lead to worlds of trouble. You really want a 6 cd suit, although a strong 5 cd suit will do in a pinch. Occasionally you might go out on a limb with a poor 5 cd suit, holding hearts, but only when quite strong and worry that missing game is a bigger risk than getting doubled for a large penalty.

[Lesh18]

RIght, I see now

 

This one is rather Off-topic here, but anyway:

 

When playing casually (just 4 players, playing rubber or a duplicate scoring, but that does not really matter), is it important that we include the vulnurablity factor in? I mean, we used to play all games just as if all pairs were non-vulnurable, because my co-players are even less experienced than I am.

 

Does the vulnurability - non-vulnurability really play in important role in bridge game? Or can it be avoided for the same experience from the game?

 

Thanks

[Stephen Tu]

This one is rather Off-topic here, but anyway:

Just start a new thread for a new topic. It makes posts considerably easier to find when searching through old posts. Or this question would have fit in better with your other thread on rubber vs. duplicate.

 

When playing casually (just 4 players, playing rubber or a duplicate scoring, but that does not really matter), is it important that we include the vulnurablity factor in? I mean, we used to play all games just as if all pairs were non-vulnurable, because my co-players are even less experienced than I am.

 

Does the vulnurability - non-vulnurability really play in important role in bridge game? Or can it be avoided for the same experience from the game?

 

Vulnerability matters quite a lot, after you gain experience. It affects the odds a lot when bidding game at IMPs, and the risks one can afford to take when preempting, sacrificing, competing in general (because at vul vs. NV, doubled down 2 is already worse than their making game, whereas at nv vs. vul, doubled down 3 is still better than their making game).

 

But if playing casually with 4 beginners, just playing everyone non-vul or everyone vul is fine, you have enough things to worry about. If your co-players are complete newbies, initially you might even want to play simplified bridge variants like mini-bridge to work on play and avoid having to teach bidding for awhile.

[Vampyr]

stayman would be considered non-alert in America and BBO online, but it is alertable in England.

 

Your club may have ideosyncratic rules; the EBU regulation is that Stayman is announced.

[Stephen Tu]

Your club may have ideosyncratic rules; the EBU regulation is that Stayman is announced.

 

OK, maybe I should have said "was alertable". Wasn't clear on the timeline when the change to announcements was introduced to the EBU.

Also, one can argue that announcement is a subset of alerting, in the ACBL the regulations require you to use the alert strip on announceable calls. An announcement is basically an alertable call with the asking and giving of the explanation considered automatic. I also didn't think that a discussion of the differences between alerts and announcements would be particularly useful in a nov/beginner forum.

 

In the U.S., stayman is neither alerted nor announced.

 

Basically, I think you are being a bit pedantic.

[Zelandakh]

Basically, do I have to tell my opponents literally everything my partner knows? Including all HCP and suit distributions requirements for particular bids?

Yes, the opponents are entitled to exactly the same information as you have. You should provide this if they ask you about one of your partner's bids. You should also expect this from opponents when you ask them about their calls. Some opponents are less forthcoming than others - if you find out that an opponent's explanation was less than complete and think this might have affected the outcome then you should speak to the Director about it (if one is present).

 

 

When playing casually (just 4 players, playing rubber or a duplicate scoring, but that does not really matter), is it important that we include the vulnurablity factor in? I mean, we used to play all games just as if all pairs were non-vulnurable, because my co-players are even less experienced than I am.

 

Does the vulnurability - non-vulnurability really play in important role in bridge game? Or can it be avoided for the same experience from the game?

Yes, the vulnerability makes some considerable difference in certain situations. If you are just playing practise hands with friends then I would suggest playing one hand with both pairs not vulnerable, then the second and third hands with the dealing side not vulnerable and the non-dealing side vulnerable, and the fourth hand with both sides vulnerable. I personally use a pair of jokers on a corner of the table to indicate vulnerability which seems to work quite well (no joker = both nv, one joker = pair with short side are vul, both jokers crossed = both vul).

[jillybean]

OK, maybe I should have said "was alertable". Wasn't clear on the timeline when the change to announcements was introduced to the EBU.

Also, one can argue that announcement is a subset of alerting, in the ACBL the regulations require you to use the alert strip on announceable calls. An announcement is basically an alertable call with the asking and giving of the explanation considered automatic. I also didn't think that a discussion of the differences between alerts and announcements would be particularly useful in a nov/beginner forum.

 

In the U.S., stayman is neither alerted nor announced.

 

Basically, I think you are being a bit pedantic.

I think it is very important that novice/beginners learn the differences between alerts and announcements.

[Stephen Tu]

I think it is very important that novice/beginners learn the differences between alerts and announcements.

 

The poster is asking lots of questions about home games and plays online, no evidence of offline tourney play. I think it is very far down on the list of things to be learning about. When OP starts venturing out to offline clubs/tournaments, announcements will be introduced soon enough, and no one is going to lose a board by alerting instead of announcing. Opp will ask, then explain the few calls requiring announcement, no big deal. People should be going easy on newbies at the local club.

 

And in terms of rules, it's much more important for newbies to learn:

- how they are supposed to handle times when partner forgets an alert, alerts something you didn't expect, misexplains, or explains correctly but you forgot, etc.

- propriety regarding partner's hesitations, skip bid procedure.

 

Alerting instead of announcing hardly has any effect, announcements were mainly to speed up the game and getting rid of the need for "special alerts". (Announcing instead of alerting is bad though, people should be better about teaching not to alert minor transfers, and not announcing everything).

[jdeegan]

:P The basic idea in the usual club duplicate bridge game is that of a level playing field. You are playing just two or three hands versus the opponents. Trickery is effective, but doesn't make for a good contest opposite unwitting opposition. The idea is to best the enemy within the rules. It also important to understand the rules. Just in case.

[tytobyto]

[i apologize for being more interested in bidding than in cardplay (tho I'm acutely aware that bidding must anticipate cardplay).]

 

I conclude from the ACBL General Convention Chart that certain conventions are disallowed:

1. Conventions and/or agreements whose primary purpose is to destroy the opponents’ methods.

So why e.g. is IDAC (Instant Destruction Against a Club) aka IDAK (Instant Destroyer And Killer) permitted?

4. Forcing pass systems.

If a convention includes a forcing pass is it considered a forcing pass "system?"

5. Relay (tell me more) systems.

How e.g. do Stayman or 1-step responses to Astro avoid this prohibition?