quiddity Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 [hv=pc=n&s=sa86hkt8532d6cat4&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=2d(multi)]133|200[/hv]I don't have much experience playing against multi. We were using a defense where 2H is takeout of hearts and 3H is natural. Is this hand good enough for 3H immediately? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Not a fan of your defense, imo one of the biggest weaknesses of playing multi is that when you have a weak 2 bid in spades they get to have a 2H overcall. That said, I would pass playing these methods, I would expect a better hand for a direct 3H overcall given that you will often be able to pass and bid 3H when it is safer. This might make me vulnerable to preemption, but only if LHO has some heart length (else he cannot preempt) which reduces the chance of me getting screwed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Not a fan of your defense, imo one of the biggest weaknesses of playing multi is that when you have a weak 2 bid in spades they get to have a 2H overcall. That said, I would pass playing these methods, I would expect a better hand for a direct 3H overcall given that you will often be able to pass and bid 3H when it is safer. This might make me vulnerable to preemption, but only if LHO has some heart length (else he cannot preempt) which reduces the chance of me getting screwed.I am a fan of this defence, for precisely the reason that Justin mentions: it's fairly safe to pass when you have a heart overcall, because LHO can't preempt. That gives you sequences like:2♦ pass 2♥ pass2♠ dbl = hearts, semi-three-suited (5(43), 1633, etc) 2♦ pass 2♥ pass2♠ 3m = hearts plus a second suitBy contrast, it's not as safe to pass with a takeout double of hearts, because it may go2♦ pass 2♠ pass4♥or2♦ pass 4♥ passpasswhich is a rather worse position to be in than after (2♠) dbl (4♠), where both partners get a chance to limit their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I have played take out overcalls, and this hand is a clear pass IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I like multi-versus-multi defense. I will repeat the details here (it has been posted on the forum several times). The basic idea circles around the use of a double of 2♦ to have meanings almost identical to their opening 2♦ bid Double shows one of these handsAn opening bid with heartsAn opening bid with spadesstrong balanced hand (range of 19 to 22 or so)very strong three suited hand (any three suits2♥ shows strong notrump hand (15-18)2♠ transfer to 3♣ (2nt by advancer shows values, but might pass a 3♣ rebid, direct 3♣ weak2NT transfer to 3♦ (3♣ by advancer shows values, but might pass a 3♦ rebid, direct 3♦ weak3♣ preemptive (not opening hand) with long clubs3♦ preemptve (not opening hand) with long diamonds3♥, 3♠, 3nt = natural and strong To see the full scheme, it is good to take a look at chris ryall's mulit-versus-multi page (link to m-v-m). So on this hand, you would (or at least could) start with a m-v-m double since you have "an opening bid" in hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted March 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 I passed and LHO.. passed! Partner had a 12-count with 6 diamonds and passed it out so we missed a game. LHO had a weak 2254. This was mostly my fault; I didn't really look through the defense when we started the match so I had to ask for the printed defense. When I realized I couldn't bid 2H naturally and passed LHO knew what was going on. Possibly partner felt ethically bound to pass as well - does reading through the defense count as UI?Even if there is no UI consideration, how hard should partner strain to keep this auction alive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 I am a fan of this defence, for precisely the reason that Justin mentions: it's fairly safe to pass when you have a heart overcall, because LHO can't preempt. That gives you sequences like:2♦ pass 2♥ pass2♠ dbl = hearts, semi-three-suited (5(43), 1633, etc) 2♦ pass 2♥ pass2♠ 3m = hearts plus a second suitBy contrast, it's not as safe to pass with a takeout double of hearts, because it may go2♦ pass 2♠ pass4♥or2♦ pass 4♥ passpasswhich is a rather worse position to be in than after (2♠) dbl (4♠), where both partners get a chance to limit their hands. Interesting post, thanks. And you obviously have much more experience vs multi than I do so I would not be surprised at all if you were right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Interesting post, thanks. And you obviously have much more experience vs multi than I do so I would not be surprised at all if you were right.Before you go changing your methods, I should point out that I've haven't actually used this defence often enough to validate this theory. Almost everyone I play with prefers natural overcalls, double as a weak notrump or a very good hand, and pass-then-double as takeout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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