Suggestions for an entire 2-level of preempts

[Free]

Hi,

 

I'm going to change to a system where I have the entire 2-level free, and I don't need any strong hands included ;) Any suggestions?

 

I personally was thinking of something like:

2♣ = 4+♣ & 4+M

2♦ = 4+♦ & 4+M

2♥ = 4+♥ & 4+♠

2♠ = normal weak opening, 5+ card

2NT or 3♣ = 5+♣ & 5+♦

3♣ or 2NT = preempt ♣

3X = preempt X

 

The 2♣ could also be 4+♣ & any other 4+ card, but I'm afraid of losing accuracy in constructive auctions or just for partner to stay or pull to another suit.

 

Remark: I DONT WANT ANY BROWN STICKER CONVENTIONS!

 

Anyone else has other/better suggestions?

[MickyB]

What is the rest of the system? eg if you have unlimited openers it may be worth keeping them sound and having constructive preempts. A friend of mine swears by:

 

2♣ = ♣+pointed

2♦ = ♦+major

2♥ = ♥+black

 

Then you can open any 2 suiter (except for 5♥4♣). Personally I'm not sure about the ambiguity over major suit lengths, I prefer to keep undisclosed majors to exactly 4 cards.

 

Knowing that you never do anything sound or constructive, what you have sounds good! I'd make 3♣ natural, 2N 5-5 in ♣+red (or some other suit combinations if it fits in better with your 1 and 2 level openers). Just want to take away their 2 cue bids.

[jtfanclub]

Hi,

 

I'm going to change to a system where I have the entire 2-level free, and I don't need any strong hands included ;) Any suggestions?

 

I personally was thinking of something like:

2♣ = 4+♣ & 4+M

2♦ = 4+♦ & 4+M

2♥ = 4+♥ & 4+♠

2♠ = normal weak opening, 5+ card

2NT or 3♣ = 5+♣ & 5+♦

3♣ or 2NT = preempt ♣

3X = preempt X

 

The 2♣ could also be 4+♣ & any other 4+ card, but I'm afraid of losing accuracy in constructive auctions or just for partner to stay or pull to another suit.

 

Remark: I DONT WANT ANY BROWN STICKER CONVENTIONS!

 

Anyone else has other/better suggestions?

Ummmm...You're going to open weak 2s with 4432? Can I play against you? Please?

 

I'd vote for:

 

2♣: 5+ clubs plus any 4+ card second suit.

2♦: 5+ diamonds plus any 4 card major.

2♥: 5+ hearts plus any second suit.

2♠: 5 +spades plus any second suit.

2NT: 5 +diamonds + 4 clubs.

[inquiry]

Free,

 

This is a system of two level bids that Mishovnbg has developed and tried to get me to play. The DONT opening bids, essentially. If you can get into contact with him, maybe he will share his ideas on this with you.

 

Ben

[Free]

Free,

 

This is a system of two level bids that Mishovnbg has developed and tried to get me to play. The DONT opening bids, essentially. If you can get into contact with him, maybe he will share his ideas on this with you.

 

Ben

I haven't seen him for ages!!! ;) snif B)

[whereagles]

At the risk of repeating myself, I think the best usage of 2C/D/H/S is as weak two. 5-6 cards NV, 6 cards V. Add a 2C-2D and 2D-2H relay to look for a side 4-card major and you're (almost) all set ;)

[Gerben47]

I'm for:

2♣ 4♥ + other

2♦ 4♠ + minor

2M natural

[cherdano]

I independently wanted to suggest the same structure as Gerben. I don't like 2♣ = ♣ + M etc., because partner often won't be able to find out the major without getting to high, and knowing the major is obviously most important for competing and preempting. And note that responder can still frequently guess to pass Gerben's 2m bids, so opponents have to act immediately with strong hands (unlike over Multi etc.).

 

So we are still left curious how you get all constructive hands dealt with on the one-level...

 

Arend

[jtfanclub]

So we are still left curious how you get all constructive hands dealt with on the one-level...

 

Arend

1C strong, 1D 5-4 (or 5-5) in the minors or 6+ card minor, 1H/1S 4 card suit, 1NT balanced works fine if you're using relays. If you're playing strong club plus 4 card majors, how many other positive bids do you need?

[Free]

Actually, it's:

1♣ 17+ any or 15-16 unbalanced

1♦ (9)10-14(15), any hand without 5-card M

1M (9)10-14(15), 5+M

1NT 15-16 bal

 

1♦ is a pure trash bid... Not the best way, but it's some local system my partner wants to learn before we get to MOSCITO :D

[cherdano]

So we are still left curious how you get all constructive hands dealt with on the one-level...

1C strong, 1D 5-4 (or 5-5) in the minors or 6+ card minor, 1H/1S 4 card suit, 1NT balanced works fine if you're using relays. If you're playing strong club plus 4 card majors, how many other positive bids do you need?

Well, some of us may prefer to distinguish between a 3=3=1=6 and 3=3=6=1 hand already on the opening bid. How exactly do the relays work in the auction 1♦-(4♠)- :D ? ;)

[jtfanclub]

Well, some of us may prefer to distinguish between a 3=3=1=6 and 3=3=6=1 hand already on the opening bid.

How exactly do the relays work in the auction 1♦-(4♠)-  ?

 

4NT is a strong asking bid, 5C is a weak asking bid (pass/correct).

 

Let's see, the bidding has gone 1♦ 4♠. My choices are partner has shown:

1. 11-15 hcp, no 5 card major, could have as few as 0 diamonds (Precision).

2. 12-21 hcp, no 5 card major, could have as few as 3 diamonds (Standard and 2/1).

3. 11-15 hcp, no 4 card major, guaranteed distributional, could have as few as 0 diamonds (this system).

 

I know which information I'm more likely to need. Knowing partner's count and trick-taking ability is far more important after heavy pre-empts than whether he has three cards in a minor.

[Free]

Plz stick to the topic...

[Antoine Fourrière]

Personally, I dislike treating a five-five like a five-four, but in case you don't mind, I would suggest

 

2♣ 7-10 HCP with four spades and another five-card suit

2♦ multi

2♥ 7-10 HCP with four hearts and four or five spades (or a five-five)

2♠ 7-10 HCP with five spades and four or five cards in a minor

2N 7-10 HCP with five hearts and a five-card minor

 

or

 

2♣ 7-10 HCP with four hearts and another five-card suit, or six hearts

2♦ 7-10 HCP with four spades and another five-card suit, or six spades

2♥ 7-10 HCP with five hearts and four or five cards in a minor

2♠ 7-10 HCP with five spades and four or five cards in a minor

 

(over 2♣/2♦, 2♦/2♥ is POC and 2♥/2♠ shows at least three cards. Pass also invites a correction by Rdbl if n°4 doubles)

[Acesfull]

How about:

 

2♣: 4-4 clubs and a major, (2♦ asks)

2♦: 4-4 diamonds and hearts

2♥: 4-4 hearts and spades

2♠: 4-4 spades and diamonds

2nt: 4-4 clubs and diamonds

 

I like it because every bid except 2nt can be passed by responder, putting more pressure on the opponents.

[EarlPurple]

I have devised the following 2 systems:

 

===================================

 

"Asptro" opening bids

 

As part of my strong diamond system, my 2 level bids are asptro based (except the opps have not opened 1NT). Therefore

 

2♣: hearts and another suit

2♦: spades and another suit

2♥: weak 2 in hearts

2♠: weak 2 in spades.

 

With 5-4 in the majors, show the shorter suit.

 

Responses to 2♣ and 2♦: With 4 card support for partner's major, support it. With 3 card support, do so only with a side-suit singleton. Otherwise bid the "middle" suit. However the opening bid is non-forcing and you may pass it if you hold the suit and no wish to compete further (eg xx xx KQJxxx xxx, certainly you will pass a 2♦ opening bid by partner).

 

Strength is, of course, according to circumstances. In front of partner, it shows a limited hand just below opening strength, so around 7-10 (but may be 6 with well-placed values). If partner has passed we can stretch the range further (particularly if green) because we are not pre-empting partner out of game. It can also depend on whether the suit combination is one that allows you to always stop at the 2-level.

 

2♣ pass 2♠ is natural and non-forcing. To force responder can bid 2NT or bid to the 3-level (but not in the suit partner has promised, which would just be a pre-emptive raise).

 

After 2♣ pass 2♦, bid your 5 card suit, or pass if that suit is diamonds. Similarly after 2♦ pass 2♥ you bid your 5 card suit or pass if that suit is hearts.

 

If the 5-card suit is the major and partner does not like it, then 2NT asks for the minor (the other suit will always be a minor).

 

With 5-5 in the majors, opener can choose between 2♣ and 2♦. Either one allows you to stop safely. Perhaps you should show the weaker one, thus "relegating" it to a 4-card suit.

 

============================================

 

"Multi-Benji opening bids".

 

This incorporates weak bids into Benji 2-bids. So 2♣ and 2♦ have strong options.

 

2♣ is either a "strong 2" bid in any suit, 20-21 balanced or a weak 2 in diamonds. Partner will normally respond 2♦ which you pass when weak otherwise show your hand by rebidding your suit or NT.

 

2♦ is either an unconditional game-force or a weak 2 bid in a major. Partner assumes the latter, and responds 2♥ unless he has a good hand or a good fit for hearts - in the latter case rebid 2♠. Any other response is forcing. I haven't worked out what opener should do with a strong hand if partner makes a non-negative response (leap straight to 7NT?)

 

2♥ and 2♠ show 5-5 in that suit and a lower ranking suit. 2NT response asks for the other suit.

 

Haven't worked out what 2NT should mean here.

[EarlPurple]

How about:

 

2♣: 4-4 clubs and a major, (2♦ asks)

2♦: 4-4 diamonds and hearts

2♥: 4-4 hearts and spades

2♠: 4-4 spades and diamonds

2nt: 4-4 clubs and diamonds

 

I like it because every bid except 2nt can be passed by responder, putting more pressure on the opponents.

Why can't partner pass 2NT? What does partner do holding 4-4-3-2 and insufficient values to invite 3NT?

[Acesfull]

I suppose you are correct. I think generally the stat is that 60 some percent of the time, partner can choose an 8 card fit when you show a specific 4-4. So yes, every bid can be passed by responder.

[whereagles]

Don't you think 2S and 2NT as 44s are somewhat optimistic openings? :D

[Acesfull]

Definitely. This is just a structure that's fun because it's frequent, but it has plenty of risks especially when vulnerable. You can always make adjustments like 2♠ shows 5+ spades and 4+ diamonds, or even 5-5, and the same for the 2nt bid.