kenrexford Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Judgment question. Opener: ♠-- ♥QJxx ♦Axx ♣Axxxxx Responder: ♠xxxxx ♥AKxxx ♦Kx ♣x Our auction was: 1♣-1♠ 2♣-3♥ 4♦-4♥ Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 North should give it another try in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 North should give it another try in my opinion. I agree. 4♦ doesn't sound like an advance cue until you confirm the fit (5♥?) and the 5 level should be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 geez you guys are tough...I just think bidding slam on this one is really tough....next hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_prah Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I agree. 4♦ doesn't sound like an advance cue until you confirm the fit (5♥?) and the 5 level should be safe. I agree as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I'm surprised that people think 4♦ isn't agreeing hearts. What else can it mean? As for the idea that North should move again over 4♥, partner might not be pleased to find himself in 5♥ or 6♥ opposite Kxxxx AKxxx xx x or AJ10xx Kxxxx x Qx. North has a minimum, a void in his partner's first suit, and an empty suit of his own. He has shown heart support and some suitability with 4♦, and a spade shortage will be no great surprise to opener. North may not have shown everything he's got, but he's certainly not worth the five-level. These hands fit miraculously, with five low opposite a void and Axxxxx opposite a singleton, and slam is still under 60%. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Agree with Gnasher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I was scrolling through the posts, and read with astonishment that two earlier posters thought 4♦ wasn't clearly a cue bid for hearts....wtf else do they think it means? An attempt to play in diamonds opposite partner's 5-5 or better in the majors? A try for 3N? Then sanity was restored via Andy's post....including the point that this is a magic hand.....what are the odds, on this auction, that S has zero hcp in spades? And N has already made a slam try via 4♦ so how can he make another move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Over NF 3♥, I do not see why 4♦ must be a great hand for hearts. Why couldn't I hold QJx x Kxx AKJTxx? If this is a 2♠ call for you, then tweak it as necessary, but surely there exists some hand with 3=6 or even 3=7 that rebids 2♣. If 4♦ really does agree hearts, then both partners could do more. No real charge, although slam looks a lot better than 60% to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Over NF 3♥, I do not see why 4♦ must be a great hand for hearts. Why couldn't I hold QJx x Kxx AKJTxx? If this is a 2♠ call for you, then tweak it as necessary, but surely there exists some hand with 3=6 or even 3=7 that rebids 2♣. If 4♦ really does agree hearts, then both partners could do more. No real charge, although slam looks a lot better than 60% to me. That's a very tight target. You have to have a hand where you have a 3-fit for spades, no upgrade to justify a 3♣ jump, but cause to think slam might be there opposite a non-forcing hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 That's a very tight target. You have to have a hand where you have a 3-fit for spades, no upgrade to justify a 3♣ jump, but cause to think slam might be there opposite a non-forcing hand. Yes I know. It has to be a hand that doesn't raise spades and doesn't bid 4♠ over 3♥. I have a lot of doubts with the approach, and I am convinced 4♦ should agree hearts, but I've never discussed it with my partners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 4♦ doesn't sound like an advance cue until you confirm the fit What is "advance cue" ?It's either cue (thus agreeing hearts) or it's not a cue. Natural doesn't make sense though so what else could that be ? What was 3H btw ? GF or invite ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't believe you Ken, did you really miss a slam with an 11 count opener opposite an invitation? But since you mention you play 3♥ as non-forcing, partner made a slam try over it and you had AK of trumps and a K. Therefore, I believe you should do something. Whichever of 5♣ or 5♦ or 5♥ you like should get the job done since they all bypassed the chance to cuebid spades opposite the void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 ..... slam is still under 60%. .....slam looks a lot better than 60% to me.Looks like ~ 35% to me .Where do 12 tricks come from ? It looks like ♣ need to split 3-3 for the x-ruff to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Yu Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I would stop here as North. Too much chance of wasted spade values and 5♥ wasn't good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 slam looks a lot better than 60% to me.How are you going to play it on a diamond lead? Looks like ~ 35% to me .Where do 12 tricks come from ? It looks like ♣ need to split 3-3 for the x-ruff to work.You can get to over 50% by playing for either clubs 3-3 or (clubs 4-2 and trumps 2-2). I haven't thought about the play in detail, but if you can arrange to get two spade ruffs and set the clubs up whenever trumps are 3-1 and clubs are 4-2/3-3, that's much more than 60%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 How are you going to play it on a diamond lead? Perhaps a better question is how do I go down on a diamond lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't believe you Ken, did you really miss a slam with an 11 count opener opposite an invitation? But since you mention you play 3♥ as non-forcing, partner made a slam try over it and you had AK of trumps and a K. Therefore, I believe you should do something. Whichever of 5♣ or 5♦ or 5♥ you like should get the job done since they all bypassed the chance to cuebid spades opposite the void..I was opener and thus bid the 4D cue-raise of hearts. This was an occasional partner, where i was not sure of the strength for his hand. The question was more theoretical, as at the table my partner did not know what 4D meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Perhaps a better question is how do I go down on a diamond lead?How would I know? If I don't know what line you're going to play, I can't be expected to guess how you will go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I think 3-1 hearts is not a problem even if clubs are 4-2. Let's say West has a doubleton club and three trumps. Win the king of diamonds, clubs to the ace, club ruff, diamond to the ace, club ruff and West overruffs. Now whatever West does I have the entries to ruff both a diamond and a club high and still return to draw West's last trump. Should be ok unless clubs are 5-1, trumps 4-0, or LHO passed throughout with a doubleton club and stiff trump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 OK, with Nigel at the helm it's about 70%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Excellent post by gnasher even if he was wrong about 10 %. If even the great kenrexford cannot bid slam I don't know who can :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurpoa Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Agree with Gnasher. ♥ ♥ ♥Yes, I agree tat you agree with Gnasher.Is he your brother ?♥ ♥ ♥ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Huh... the 4♦ be cannot be anything than a heart cue. With clubs you bid 4/5♣. With diamonds you bid 3NT.With 3 spades you bid 3♠. So... 4♦ = hearts, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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